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09-01-2010, 06:56 AM
| #31 | |
| Cancuncare Guru  Join Date: 14th Dec 2005 Location: Cancún, Mexico
Posts: 853
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09-01-2010, 07:13 AM
| #32 |
| I can choose my own title  Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Life, we're just never going to agree on this. I see your comments as just giving up. The war on drugs has become too hard so just give up and legalize it. There are tons of kids that smoke cigarettes and we'll never stop them from doing it. Should we just make it legal for kids to smoke cigarettes? |
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09-01-2010, 07:22 AM
| #33 |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 14th Dec 2005 Location: Cancún, Mexico
Posts: 853
| Now cigarettes are something that should be illegal.. all they do is kill... I'd imagine in a drug legal US they would be regulated more or less just like alcohol. Sold at licensed places, to adults.. the punishments and fines for selling to kids would be similar to those for selling to minors today. We could also put big warning labels on everything so in case anyone doesn't realize how dangerous drugs can be it will be written clearly on the package along side self-help information and hotlines. |
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09-01-2010, 07:27 AM
| #34 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Quote:
So why not make it legal for children to smoke cigarettes. Or hell..drink alcohol. They allow it in some European countries... Why enforce it if we're not going to be able to stop everyone? | |
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09-01-2010, 07:37 AM
| #35 | |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 14th Dec 2005 Location: Cancún, Mexico
Posts: 853
| Quote:
I think what you're trying to suggest is that those who favor legalizing drugs would want a lawless society.. that's not the case, smarter laws that reflect the real world and aren't destructive is what we're after. | |
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09-01-2010, 07:43 AM
| #36 | |
| Cancuncare Addict  Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
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Because millions of dollars are spent every year in the court system and prisons and the drug traffic is not even slowed. What are you accomplishing? Making yourself feel better because you have labelled them illegal and by gosh that is the way it's going to stay whether I accomplish anything or not. That's assanine. | |
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09-01-2010, 08:03 AM
| #37 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Quote:
Cigarettes would never become legal in today's society but there's a huge industry wrapped around it and they just can't make it illegal now without affecting the economy. What would we say about drugs 50 years later if we legalized it. I'm not actually anti-pot. I just don't like the idea of giving up for the sake of giving up. | |
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09-01-2010, 10:17 AM
| #38 | |
| Cancuncare Addict Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
| Quote:
See previous statement. | |
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09-01-2010, 11:05 AM
| #39 |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| So your solution is just to take down the dam and flood the valley? |
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09-01-2010, 11:59 AM
| #40 | |
| I can choose my own title  Join Date: 7th Nov 2009 Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,167
| Quote:
You may as well, the hole in the dam is so big you may as well take it down and start over... | |
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09-01-2010, 01:36 PM
| #41 |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| what do you say to the people living in the valley that will surely die? |
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09-01-2010, 02:49 PM
| #42 | |
| Cancuncare Addict Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
| Quote:
You are assuming that drug use will become rampant just because it becomes legal??? Drugs are so readily available now that everyone could be a junkie if they so chose. If you say they would be cheaper if legalized, that wouldn't be the case after the governement adds the taxes they are sure to add. The jail population would probably be cut in half and drug related murders would be virtually eliminated. I don't see your arguement as being valid. | |
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09-02-2010, 08:35 AM
| #43 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 7th Nov 2009 Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,167
| Quote:
Many innocent people are going to die over the drug trade/war, many have and many more will continue, innocent along with the guilty. | |
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09-02-2010, 08:58 AM
| #44 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Quote:
If it became legal there would be a large increase in people using. The majority of that increase would come from younger generations who don't normally have access to it. So yes... I believe it would become rampant. Just think of the effect if the drinking age in the US dropped from 21 to 19. Many, many more 19 and 20 year olds would drink and drink more often. There would be a major increase. The majority of the time when young people hit the legal age to drink they spend the next few years drinking a lot heavier then they would later in life. Learning those lessons about excessive drinking, mixing drinks, etc. Even though many of them have already been drinking underage for a few years. Those that waited until they were legal age get added to the mix. You can't tell me that you've never seen this. I could care less about the people who go to jail. If you're going to do something that is illegal you have to be ready to pay the price. If I get caught speeding I don't get mad at the cop who gives me a ticket. | |
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09-02-2010, 09:00 AM
| #45 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Quote:
Making drugs legal won't change that. | |
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09-02-2010, 09:16 AM
| #46 | |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 14th Dec 2005 Location: Cancún, Mexico
Posts: 853
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09-02-2010, 11:22 AM
| #47 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Quote:
Wow.. I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. that "isn't a single family that doesn't have at least a few regular drug users in it". If that was the case then the US would have crumbled into Anarchy a long time ago. Sure there are sections of cities where it's easy to find drugs... but that isn't the majority by any means. Wiki posts are notoriously inaccurate.... Talk to almost any cop an they'll tell you that while the war on drugs may not be going well the alternative is worse. | |
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09-02-2010, 11:32 AM
| #48 |
| I can choose my own title  Join Date: 2nd Apr 2009 Location: Cancun, Centro
Posts: 2,540
| The opium trade 4, as I said earlier, I'm hard pressed to find anybody that agrees with the proposition Life and I have represented (I think) on this thread, and others, when it comes to the best way to manage people's desire to get high, but cops are part of the industry that has grown up around the process of rendering drug use illegal, so I don't consider them objective (but then, who is on this issue). I've lived in China where opium is still used, opium pipes sold openly, and marijuana is sold on the streets by little old ladies; nevertheless, it is still illegal there, though you can find restaurants with ganga on the menu, along with the desserts. Stories you read about the days when opium use was not illegal (gotta go back aways for that one) there seem to have been plenty of people laying around, glassy eyed and useless to anybody. HOWEVER, that doesn't suggest to me that the criminal option is the best way to manage this obvious abuse. |
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09-02-2010, 12:11 PM
| #49 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Quote:
If I want to know the straight story about what's going on in Afghanistan I'll talk to a soldier. If I want to know what's going on in the drug world, I'm definitely going to take a cop's opinion. | |
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09-02-2010, 12:21 PM
| #50 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 7th Nov 2009 Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,167
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09-02-2010, 12:33 PM
| #51 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 7th Nov 2009 Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,167
| Quote:
you can find drugs anywhere. | |
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09-02-2010, 12:42 PM
| #52 |
| Cancuncare Addict Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
| rdubnpk Drugs aren't available everywhere? Time Magazine story from June 2001 cites two people with the last name of Stolzfus, no relation, arrested for dealing cocaine and methamphetamines at town dances. Both men were Amish and the town dances were in the Amish area of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. |
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09-02-2010, 12:46 PM
| #53 |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 7th Nov 2009 Location: Alberta
Posts: 2,167
| Can an Amish dance?? LOL |
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09-02-2010, 01:04 PM
| #54 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
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09-02-2010, 01:22 PM
| #55 | |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 14th Dec 2005 Location: Cancún, Mexico
Posts: 853
| Quote:
And yes "drugs" is a broad term.. alcohol is certainly a mind altering drug, but of' course it's legal (for the moment)... so some might not think of it as a "drug". Another trend among some of the older crowd is the abuse of prescription drugs... whereby they will go "doctor shopping" to get multiple prescriptions and abuse them.. and while technically that use might not be illegal.. its still drug use in my book... the only difference is they got them at pharmacies instead of the guy on the corner. (and you'll note its a lot safer to do that than getting drugs of unknown quality from seedy characters in dark alleys) There is also the issue of over medication of children these days (ref: Prozac Nation) that IMO inclines them to seek out mind altering drugs as they get older, as they've been conditioned from a very young age that drug/medication use to "make them feel good" is acceptable and normal, and that not feeling good all the time is something unnatural. I don't encourage drug abuse (of any kind), but I don't see the current US policy as beneficial or sustainable, in fact I see it as extremely disruptive and damaging to society. It's my opinion that the levels of drug use would not increase notably if they were made legal. People will still be aware, if not more so, of the negative effects. Decriminalization will drastically cut violence and other crime associated with the drug trade, free up much needed resources, stop the needless incarceration of perfectly decent people who simply prefer to get their "buzz" from something other than alcohol, and allow for more open access to help for those that want it. I too balked at the idea of legalization not so many years ago, but as I've grown more aware of the deeper implications and realities of the current policy I've begun to feel that the best solution for everyone is controlled legalization and regulation. Anyone who thinks that the "war on drugs" will rid them from the streets is living in a dream world IMHO.. we can't even keep them out of prisons... so to think that they will ever just go away is crazy... and in the mean time far more lives are lost and destroyed in the "war" than the drugs could ever hope to claim. So... that's my opinion on the issue and while I certainly respect those who hold opposing views, as was said, it's something that we simply may never agree on. | |
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09-02-2010, 01:36 PM
| #56 |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 4th Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,002
| Anyone who thinks that the war on anything will solve that particular problem is definitely in a dream world. Drugs will never be eliminated but it can be controled to a point. Crime will never be eliminated but we can't give up on that. poverty ignorance racisim disease famine the list goes on. There are a ton of things that we will never be able to wipe out but giving up is just not an option. That's the way I see drugs. There is no benefit from legalizing it. The tax dollars gained will pale in comparison to the cost of addiction centers, medical facilities, etc that will get paid for by tax dollars. Free health care in Canada has been feeling the effects of smokers for decades. Like it or not your tax dollars will foot the bill for the addicts that grow out of legalizing drugs. |
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09-02-2010, 02:47 PM
| #57 | |
| Cancuncare Addict Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
| Quote:
That accordion music can really get ya hoppin!! | |
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09-02-2010, 03:36 PM
| #58 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 12th Nov 2004 Location: London
Posts: 1,200
| Quote:
surely by making drugs legal, you control, you license, you legislate, and you regulate, by making drugs legal, you make them unattractive to alot of users and bring them out from the underground, i know for sure that people get a buzz just because of the risks involved;
__________________ Plato: "He was a wise man who invented beer" - amen to that! Why is it called common sense when it's so rare? www.facebook.com/john.francis3  | |
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09-02-2010, 03:52 PM
| #59 |
| Cancuncare Newbie Join Date: 11th Jan 2010
Posts: 2
| I'm going to wade in on the side of at least SOME legalization on this issue. I only speak from 26 years in the US Coast Guard when I say that when the Coast Guard would make a multi ton bust, (pot or coke it didn't matter), it never seemed to increase the street price nor decrease the supply. As far as alcohol goes, after the 27th amendment to the US Constitution was passed in 1971, many states lowered their drinking age to 18, although several already had a lower age than 21 before (Idaho and South Dakota come to mind). There was then either a spike in 18 - 21 year olds having accidents, or not, according to whose statistics you wanted to believe. Anyway, MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) pitched such a big fit that the US government threatened ALL the states that allowed legal drinking for those under 21 with taking away their highway funds if they didn't raise the age to 21 again and they all caved. Of course the 18 - 21 year olds still get their older buddies to buy their boose just like before. |
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09-03-2010, 05:48 AM
| #60 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 2nd Apr 2009 Location: Cancun, Centro
Posts: 2,540
| If the readers will go back to page one, they will find a lengthy and thoughtfully written post by Steve in which he expresses the anguish caused by large scale immigration to those of the then dominant culture. Large scale immigration will, without a doubt, shift the existing culture even if it doesn't supplant it. But, for many developed nations, the alternative is equally unpalatable. One of the ironies of development is that it results in a decline in the birth rate. Over time, that factor alone will destroy an economy, unless immigration reverses the trend to a smaller, and rapidly aging population. Quote:
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