Save the rich, screw the downtrodden

[rdubnpk]

rdubnpk
There is no doubt the US economy is in sad shape. Unemployment is still sky high and no new jobs are being created. In times like this, our elected officials at all levels seem to be trying to balance budgets the way they have for decades; by cutting the monies available to those who can least afford the cuts. The unemployed, the elderly, and, of all things, the educators, are the ones most mentioned. Studies show that our educational system lags far behind those of other industrial countries and seems to be the last place where cuts should be made.
At least we are keeping the tax cuts for the rich and super rich, though. Politicians certainly know where those campaign contributions are coming from. Helps ease the conscience.

[B & B]

Your thread title reminds me of an old song from High School form Krokus, now I am going to have to go look it up.

Eat the rich
Eat the rich
Don't you know
Life is a bitch

Not commenting on the political overtones, just reminded me of that old song.

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by B & B

Your thread title reminds me of an old song from High School form Krokus, now I am going to have to go look it up.

Eat the rich
Eat the rich
Don't you know
Life is a bitch

Not commenting on the political overtones, just reminded me of that old song.

rdubnpk
Better to remember old songs than talk about new gripes anytime!!

[Ben & Lisa]

I am not rich by any benchmark, but IMO we need much more cuts than are currently being talked about. Common sense says you cant keep spending more money than you have coming in and being old or lazy doesn't entitle anyone to my hard earned money.
I will give a few examples out of many. The recent rage amongst college students in MI is to get on food stamps while they are in college. Even when their bill is being footed by mom and dad. Or how about the multi generation welfare families in the inner city. Or the 18 year old girls that get knocked up and expect me to pay for their mistakes. Personally I am fed up with it and believe its time people start taking responsibility for their own healthcare, retirement and medical care.

[Tim&Kendra]

I am not rich by any benchmark, but IMO we need much more cuts than are currently being talked about. Common sense says you cant keep spending more money than you have coming in and being old or lazy doesn't entitle anyone to my hard earned money.
I will give a few examples out of many. The recent rage amongst college students in MI is to get on food stamps while they are in college. Even when their bill is being footed by mom and dad. Or how about the multi generation welfare families in the inner city. Or the 18 year old girls that get knocked up and expect me to pay for their mistakes. Personally I am fed up with it and believe its time people start taking responsibility for their own healthcare, retirement and medical care.

[rdubnpk]

I am not rich by any benchmark, but IMO we need much more cuts than are currently being talked about. Common sense says you cant keep spending more money than you have coming in and being old or lazy doesn't entitle anyone to my hard earned money.
I will give a few examples out of many. The recent rage amongst college students in MI is to get on food stamps while they are in college. Even when their bill is being footed by mom and dad. Or how about the multi generation welfare families in the inner city. Or the 18 year old girls that get knocked up and expect me to pay for their mistakes. Personally I am fed up with it and believe its time people start taking responsibility for their own healthcare, retirement and medical care.

rdubnpk
Like the politicians do.

[Jamie]

Why the hell am I posting this.........

It's only 5 weeks till this non-union working stiff takes his annual 2 week vacation south of the border to take advantage of the poor locals there working for peanuts to serve the oppressive rich from the north.

Never mind that my father was born to a cold water walk up (meaning that the place he called home for his first 18 years had no hot water and no elevator). He worked his way through life eventually walking on all seven continents of the world. He raised three kids to approach the world the same way. He made sacrifices for me to start my education. I then went to work and completed my education through night school. I worked long hours and hard without having to rely on having to depend on the hard work of those around me to earn me guaranteed raises and benefits. I’ve now done 5 of the seven continents and am well on my way to securing my retirement without having to depend on Social Security or Obamacare.

True I’ve dodged being laid off, but attribute some of that by my demonstrated hard work, willing to take chances, and extra work, and keeping my eyes open to what is happening around me.

So excuse me if I don’t have a lot of sympathy for those that stand around and say the world “owes” them something. Or those that need Union representation to protect them from the oppressive “man”, aka the public, which pays their salary.

Sure there are people that need help but paying unemployment for over two years is NOT help but a job. So if we are going to pay those folks, send them back to the classroom to be tutors for those kids that seem to need the help. If you are collecting unemployment or welfare you should be showing up at some place every morning earning that check.

Sure there is a need for social programs, but not to the tune of 75% of the spendable federal budget.

OK.. climbing down off the soapbox…..

I’m really going to enjoy my vacation….

Jamie

[maddbomber]

I am not rich by any benchmark, but IMO we need much more cuts than are currently being talked about. Common sense says you cant keep spending more money than you have coming in and being old or lazy doesn't entitle anyone to my hard earned money.
I will give a few examples out of many. The recent rage amongst college students in MI is to get on food stamps while they are in college. Even when their bill is being footed by mom and dad. Or how about the multi generation welfare families in the inner city. Or the 18 year old girls that get knocked up and expect me to pay for their mistakes. Personally I am fed up with it and believe its time people start taking responsibility for their own healthcare, retirement and medical care.

bingo

[rdubnpk]

rdubnpk
I am not sensing a lot of sympathy for the poor and down trodden lol. I am 100% on your side when the people we are discussing are those that take advantage of the system, and they are numerous. The reason for this is, of course, that the system is SO EASY to take advantage of. But, when you are talking of those that HAVE WORKED all their lives to better themselves and have fallen victim to an economy screw job hoisted upon them by Wall Street and Joe Senator, I can't help but feel compassion for their plight.

[twinimini]

Okay, so it's time to take a break from helping to keep an overly greedy government from taking all of the money my clients have earned. I always get amazed at the tremendous snow job the teachers' unions do on the general public. You've heard some variation of the ad..."They're taking money away from your child's education." What a croc! I just had a teacher in my office who has a $92,000 W-2, which when coupled with her benefits puts her just about at $150,000 a year for working 180 days a year with guaranteed job security. The Buffalo teachers union is all bent out of shape because the City wants to take away their plastic surgery benefits from their health insurance. Give me a break!!

People in general are no longer accountable for their actions. Don't want to work? That's okay you can draw unemployment for 2 and half years. Last fall we advertised for a beginning accountant. Now realize we are an area that is supposed to be depressed. How many resumes did you think we got? Are you ready? Eight. Yep, eight resumes for a beginning accountant's job that will start at $36,000 with full paid benefits and a very bright future. Recession? I don't think so. Every one of my clients that is hiring has the same gripe. I can't find people to hire. Think maybe an overly coddling government could have anything to do with that?

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
.... But, when you are talking of those that HAVE WORKED all their lives to better themselves and have fallen victim to an economy screw job hoisted upon them by Wall Street and Joe Senator, I can't help but feel compassion for their plight.

Sorry when everyone claims to be a "victim" you start getting numb to the word. We have too many victims and not enough people taking responsibility for their future.

Again there are those that truely in need but when everyone else gets into that line please place the blame where it is due. If those that weren't gaming the system would take care of themselves you'd see a whole new attitude for those in true need. But it simply a case where we no longer can afford to save thousands to help the one in true need.

Jamie

[Ben & Lisa]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
I am not sensing a lot of sympathy for the poor and down trodden lol. I am 100% on your side when the people we are discussing are those that take advantage of the system, and they are numerous. The reason for this is, of course, that the system is SO EASY to take advantage of. But, when you are talking of those that HAVE WORKED all their lives to better themselves and have fallen victim to an economy screw job hoisted upon them by Wall Street and Joe Senator, I can't help but feel compassion for their plight.

You can thank Barney Frank and his cohorts for encouraging people to buy homes the could not possibly afford.

The truth is, the only way I know of to maintain employment through thick and thin is to make yourself too valuable to be let go. That means working harder, learning more and being better at what you do than everyone else. I made it through a series of layoffs by doing this and I am sticking to it. However if I were laid off I can guarantee that I would have employment again in short order. It may not be for the same money, or in the same area but I will be working and providing for my family rather than waiting for the Gov to "help".

[Brewster]

All good points but there are usually three sides to every story.

All lot of good honest people lost their jobs in the recent crisis. It wouldn't be right to lump them in with the "Career Welfare" lot.

I would like to see unions make a concerted effort to get established in countries like China, India, etc..

Right now it seems the only way for our corporations to compete is to go there for labor or stay home and reduce our standard of living.

Of course, that is if the CEO want to maintain struggling along at 700 times the average income of the employees.

"According to Business Week, the average CEO of a major corporation made 42 times the average hourly worker's pay in 1980. By 1990 that had almost doubled to 85 times. In 2000, the average CEO salary reached an unbelievable 531 times that of the average hourly worker."

I have never been a union guy and I don't believe in killing the golden goose or chasing her away. But things appear to be getting pretty ridiculous out there these days. Maybe it's time for Woody Guthrie to make a come back. "Free trade" was a scam on all of us.

You need only look back to the early 1900's and the Triangle Building fire, to see unregulated free enterprise at it's finest.

[Jamie]

We've all said that there are those in true need, it's just sorting them from those that see the free ride that has overwhelmed the system and people's tolerance.

And yeah, the Unions are really making a big deal over the 110 year anniversary of a terrible fire. But come on.. that was over a century ago. Yes, at one time Unions had their place and were totally necessary. But I think that time has passed to the point where they now exist so a few can live off the wages of many claiming to be taking care of them. Times have changed. People are no longer being met as they come off the boat and told who they can work for and who they must vote for if they want a job... or are they.....

Why stop at what happen a century ago.. let's go back 3 centuries and talk about Kings and Lords and Surfs!

Jamie

[Ben & Lisa]

Originally Posted by Brewster

"Free trade" was a scam on all of us.

That's the truth. Free trade isnt free when the country your dealing with has no labour or environmental laws.
I would like to see a US president that gave the Chicoms the finger

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by Jamie

We've all said that there are those in true need, it's just sorting them from those that see the free ride that has overwhelmed the system and people's tolerance.

And yeah, the Unions are really making a big deal over the 110 year anniversary of a terrible fire. But come on.. that was over a century ago. Yes, at one time Unions had their place and were totally necessary. But I think that time has passed to the point where they now exist so a few can live off the wages of many claiming to be taking care of them. Times have changed. People are no longer being met as they come off the boat and told who they can work for and who they must vote for if they want a job... or are they.....

Why stop at what happen a century ago.. let's go back 3 centuries and talk about Kings and Lords and Surfs!

Jamie

I would have been writing the same thing a couple of years ago, Jamie.

"Unions have outgrown the usefulness. Their primary role is to ask for more. Wages skyrocketed, choking the automotive industry. Six government workers at the side of a road watching one fill a hole." That was me a couple of years ago.

The pendulum had swung too far left. It seems to me though it's on the way back and gaining speed.

Just as Unions will ask for the world by nature, business will maximize profits at the expense of workers, if left unchecked.

But Unions gave us a lot of things we should all be grateful for. Weekends and paid vacations for example! lol

I think employment in the developing world is a good thing. But I think our unions should be organizing over there, ensuring that we are all competing on a level playing field. I prefer that to having us go down to their standard of living.

[Jamie]

By all means.. let's make our countries dominate again.. send the unions overseas!

I work for a hugh corporation. Only the factory workers are unionized. I'm not. I still get paid, I still rasies, I still have benefits. In fact those joining today, one might say, have better benefits than I did when I joined. All part of the ongoing competition for the best workers. That is what really makes the difference today.

Jamie

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by Jamie

By all means.. let's make our countries dominate again.. send the unions overseas!

I work for a hugh corporation. Only the factory workers are unionized. I'm not. I still get paid, I still rasies, I still have benefits. In fact those joining today, one might say, have better benefits than I did when I joined. All part of the ongoing competition for the best workers. That is what really makes the difference today.

Jamie

Hamilton in Ontario is a steel town. The two dominant players were Stelco and Dofasco, both Canadian companies. Stelco was unionized and Dofasco was not. But the Dofasco employees received all the benefits Stelco employees received, in order for Dofasco to be competitive in the job market. If we were to outlaw unions we no doubt see both companies employees standard of living drop dramatically.

Sadly, for Canada, both are now "victims" of free trade. Stelco was bought by US Steel and Dofasco went to Arcelor Mittal. Go down the list and most of the big Canadian companies are now gone. Hurray for Free Trade!

We still have Tim Horton's (coffee shops) and Canadian Tire (Kind of a Home Depot with more household and sporting goods and less building supplies).

I absolutely agree that Unions went too far. But if we were to lose them we would eventually all lose and have to form them again.

I think the best approach is to raise the labor and environmental standards in China and India, so they are competing fairly and their people earn a decent living and not pouring crap in their rivers, etc.. Unions can do that.

[Bonez]

Well now for another Canadian offering their southern cousins a new take on things! Lol

A really BIG problem on the south side of the 49th is the spiraling debt. You are the only country that can keep printing money to cover your debts. As a result there has being nothing but lip service to debt reduction. As the extra greenbacks get printed you end up devaluing your currency. As a result all the defaults.

You can do this cause right now all the world and there by all trade is measured against the greenback. Trouble with that is you have let china now hold most of your debt.

IMF is considering moving from a the greenback as the standard. Just check on how China is dumping their cash holdings by buying assests with them. Past year they have dropped 12% of there buck holdings and accounted for 10% of the company accusitions world wide.

I don't want to sound like henny penny but when that sky falls you are likely to take your neighbors to the north with you.

[twinimini]

Originally Posted by Bonez

Well now for another Canadian offering their southern cousins a new take on things! Lol

A really BIG problem on the south side of the 49th is the spiraling debt. You are the only country that can keep printing money to cover your debts. As a result there has being nothing but lip service to debt reduction. As the extra greenbacks get printed you end up devaluing your currency. As a result all the defaults.

You can do this cause right now all the world and there by all trade is measured against the greenback. Trouble with that is you have let china now hold most of your debt.

IMF is considering moving from a the greenback as the standard. Just check on how China is dumping their cash holdings by buying assests with them. Past year they have dropped 12% of there buck holdings and accounted for 10% of the company accusitions world wide.

I don't want to sound like henny penny but when that sky falls you are likely to take your neighbors to the north with you.

I have to agree with you Bonez. Our debt continues out of sight and will continue to spiral because neither party is willing to provide leadership. Both US parties are so busy pandering to their core supporters that they refuse to face reality. Two things need to happen if we are to get out of this mess. We need tax increases and benefit decreases. Unless we can get some leadership from either party it will never happen and the North American dream will go the route of the Edsel.

I'm a CPA and my practice is very mixed. It spans from those paying millions in taxes to those who get the poverty credits. Over the last 15 years I have seen those making over $100,000 a year having their incomes go up, those from $50,000 to $100,000 stay the same, and those under $50,000 go down. No nation can thrive without a strong middle class and we are destroying ours with foreign competition and domestic debt. Where, oh where is Ross Perot when we really need him?

[Ben & Lisa]

Originally Posted by Brewster

Sadly, for Canada, both are now "victims" of free trade. Stelco was bought by US Steel and Dofasco went to Arcelor Mittal. Go down the list and most of the big Canadian companies are now gone. Hurray for Free Trade!

We still have Tim Horton's (coffee shops) and Canadian Tire (Kind of a Home Depot with more household and sporting goods and less building supplies).

.

I believe Tim Horton's is owned by a US company, the same one that owns the Wendy's fast food chain.

[Brewster]

I believe Tim Horton's is owned by a US company, the same one that owns the Wendy's fast food chain.

Yes, for a while. But it's back in Canadian ownership now. Publicly traded.

[rdubnpk]

rdubnpk
Got you guys' minds off boobs for a few, didn't I? And they said it couldn't be done...........

[twinimini]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
Got you guys' minds off boobs for a few, didn't I? And they said it couldn't be done...........

I need the diversion! Thanks for the break from reality.

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
Got you guys' minds off boobs for a few, didn't I? And they said it couldn't be done...........

I can get sucked into a debate faster than half the guys I know at TTR can suck back a beer....lol

And once I saw Jamie in on it too, ignoring his blood pressure, I was a goner...lol

[Canadian Dos Equis fan]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
Got you guys' minds off boobs for a few, didn't I? And they said it couldn't be done...........

Cant speak for Bruce or Jamie but I can argue about politics and think about boobs at the same time thank you very much.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
Got you guys' minds off boobs for a few, didn't I? And they said it couldn't be done...........

You will notice that my first post talked about my upcoming vacation to TTR... they say that all men have a one track mind and it's occupied by a runaway feight train hauling thoughts about sex.... ... sorry, had to take a pause there, was thinking about sex... what were we discussing????

Jamie

[Ben & Lisa]

Originally Posted by Brewster

Yes, for a while. But it's back in Canadian ownership now. Publicly traded.

After living in Canada for 6 years there is one thing I could never understand. What in the hell is the Canadian obsession with Tim Hortons? The donuts are awful.

[Canadian Dos Equis fan]

After living in Canada for 6 years there is one thing I could never understand. What in the hell is the Canadian obsession with Tim Hortons? The donuts are awful.

It's the heroin in the coffee. Donuts are filled with a masking agent so we can pass drug tests if our employers require them.

[Brewster]

After living in Canada for 6 years there is one thing I could never understand. What in the hell is the Canadian obsession with Tim Hortons? The donuts are awful.

LOL...we think your Krispy Kreme donuts taste like wet, mucky sugar packed into a ring shape.

It's all about the coffee. Rumors abound they put something addictive in it.