WTF don't the airlines understand

[Bart/Annette]

Why do American and Continental try so hard to drive travelers towards Southwest?

Getting a seat assignment should not be that difficult, and paying the crazy fees to sit together or in some specific part of the plane should not be part of the deal. I just paid $3.70/seat on one American flight to sit in the front row, but will not pay the $14.00/seat for crappy seats on another flight.

Checking back every day or so to see if or which seats are available is ridiculous, and confirms why I fly Southwest whenever I can.

[twinimini]

I haven't seen these additional charges, but I rarely fly either American or Continental. Ironically I am on American next month going to Fargo, ND, but I had no trouble with a seat assignment. My complaint about SW is their LACK of seat assignments. I had a flight from Raleigh to Buffalo via Baltimore. I had preferential seating on both flights. The flight from Raleigh was delayed so I ended up in a middle seat from Baltimore to Buffalo. Not a real long flight, but when you travel a fair amount you really, really don't want the damned middle seat. Invariably I'm stuck between two people who are large enough to have their own zip codes. I guess overall flying is just not fun anymore no matter which airline you're on.

[Bart/Annette]

Originally Posted by twinimini

I haven't seen these additional charges, but I rarely fly either American or Continental. Ironically I am on American next month going to Fargo, ND, but I had no trouble with a seat assignment. My complaint about SW is their LACK of seat assignments. I had a flight from Raleigh to Buffalo via Baltimore. I had preferential seating on both flights. The flight from Raleigh was delayed so I ended up in a middle seat from Baltimore to Buffalo. Not a real long flight, but when you travel a fair amount you really, really don't want the damned middle seat. Invariably I'm stuck between two people who are large enough to have their own zip codes. I guess overall flying is just not fun anymore no matter which airline you're on.

You are probably right about every airline being a pain, and I just know how to avoid most of the pain on Southwest.

[twinimini]

Originally when I went to Raleigh I went down on US Air and was supposed to return on Friday via US Air. My Friday meeting got cancelled so I had to return on Thursday. US Air wanted $750 to change my ticket from Friday to Thursday, so I ended up flying back on SW. To me that is one prime example of airline stupidity. Wouldn't it have made more sense to have a nominal rebooking charge and to keep my business? Almost a rhetorical question isn't it?

[Brewster]

Flying sucks these days. Remember a million years ago when the biggest concern for business travellers was getting an upgrade?

In Canada we can still select our seats 24 hours before flight time but our taxes, airport fees and security fees are almost as much as the cost of the flight and sometimes actually more on short flights.

I'm gonna buy a bicycle...lol

[matchandahalf]

Don't get me started on the seat issue.

Sunwing Airlines/Signature Vacations does a big chunk of the Mexican travel packages out of Vancouver. They operate planes with seats so close together that a man larger than 6'2" physically cannot fit into the seat due to the seat back in front being too close. I am 5'8" and my knees were only about 2" from the seat back in front of me. When the man in front of me reclined his seat, the top of his head was just a few inches from my face. If you want a seat with proper legroom, i.e., a normal seat on any other airline, you have to pay $40 each direction.

Infuriating!

[Franco27]

Would highly recommend Emirates - just came back from India, business class all the way, awesome

[twinimini]

I have heard some very good things about Emirates Air. Sadly they don't fly anywhere that I have to go. I'm stuck with the mundane of Southwest, US Air, American, and Delta.

[Jamie]

This is why I'm kinda enjoying the new series "Pan Am" so much. It brings back memories of when flying was fun. People actually dressed up to get on a plane. It was an experience as opposed to a flying bus. You paid for service and got it. Now people want a $49 coast to coast flight and wonder why they have to pay for bags, seat upgrades, etc. Most flights breakeven on costs even with the added fees. They used to lose money.

It's a case of we get what we pay for. You want $49 flights, you get $49 service.

Think about it. For say $300 (if you work at it you can get NYC to SFO R/T for around $275 plus $25 for your bag) you get yourself and 50 pounds of your stuff moved 6,000 miles. That's 5 cents a mile. If you get 30 miles a gallon and pay $3.65 a gallon for gas, that works out to 12 cents a mile. So you're cramped for 3 hours each way while they move you. Take it up to 20 cents a mile and you can fly first class with lots of room, free drinks and a meal.

It's all in how you look at it and what you are willing to pay for.

Jamie

[Brewster]

I think they should tax the rich to subsidize our flights, Jamie

Originally Posted by Jamie

This is why I'm kinda enjoying the new series "Pan Am" so much. It brings back memories of when flying was fun. People actually dressed up to get on a plane. It was an experience as opposed to a flying bus. You paid for service and got it. Now people want a $49 coast to coast flight and wonder why they have to pay for bags, seat upgrades, etc. Most flights breakeven on costs even with the added fees. They used to lose money.

It's a case of we get what we pay for. You want $49 flights, you get $49 service.

Think about it. For say $300 (if you work at it you can get NYC to SFO R/T for around $275 plus $25 for your bag) you get yourself and 50 pounds of your stuff moved 6,000 miles. That's 5 cents a mile. If you get 30 miles a gallon and pay $3.65 a gallon for gas, that works out to 12 cents a mile. So you're cramped for 3 hours each way while they move you. Take it up to 20 cents a mile and you can fly first class with lots of room, free drinks and a meal.

It's all in how you look at it and what you are willing to pay for.

Jamie

[808sensation]

Southwest are like the WALMARTS of airlines. i flew with them once RT and never again. ill pay extra $100 to fly Continental/UA and enjoy my individual monitor and free tequila

[Canadian Dos Equis fan]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I think they should tax the rich to subsidize our flights, Jamie

Say now there's an idea, a good Canadian one Bruce!

[twinimini]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I think they should tax the rich to subsidize our flights, Jamie

Brewster, does that mean you are willing to pay our taxes? After all, aren't all Canadians rich?

My joke about the "tax the rich" is that rich is defined as anyone who makes more than I do. In other words, let someone else pay for it. It's the core of Obamanomics!

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by twinimini

Brewster, does that mean you are willing to pay our taxes? After all, aren't all Canadians rich?

My joke about the "tax the rich" is that rich is defined as anyone who makes more than I do. In other words, let someone else pay for it. It's the core of Obamanomics!

Oh no problem, we're used to paying taxes...lol.

It would be interesting to see an accurate comparison between Canada and the US average tax rates for "the rich", middle class and the poor. In fairness, I think private health care expenses would have to be added to the US tax costs since they are included in Canadian taxes.

Cain's comments the other day, "Stop whining and go get rich!" strikes me as ridiculous. That would be like saying to a golfer, "Stop whining about your slice and go win the PGA". Only a small percentage of people are endowed with all the abilities required to be a major success in business. It takes a lot more than a dream and hard work.

The trick is to define what is "fair" taxes for the wealthy. Not so high that they leave the country, like what happened in Britain, but no so low that the countries infrastructure and middle class decay around them.

[twinimini]

Not meaning to hijack Bart's thread, but I think many of the higher income people wouldn't object so much to higher taxes if there weren't such huge giveaways on the other end.

As to a comparison of taxes between the two countries, most people look only to rates of taxation as the index of taxation when in reality one should look at how much in taxes do most people actually pay. Even factoring in our health care costs would distort the comparison as almost 50% of all health care costs in the US are incurred by 5% of the population. You know we could completely cure our health care problem in the US if we shipped that 5% to Canada. Just a thought.

[Brewster]

No problem, give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses...

I know what you mean. It's frustrating paying taxes and then to see the money spent foolishly or passed on to others that are not deserving.

I would point out that it doesn't seem right that the middle class pay a disproportionate amount to the wealthy, even with the current "entitlement" problems.

The attitude towards entitlements needs to be addressed as well.

Bottom line is you have a huge debt load that needs to be dealt with, decaying infrastructure and a disappearing middle class. You are going to need to increase taxes, where you can, and reduce spending to get out of the hole.

I noticed at after WWII your debt vs. GDP was around 120%, much higher than today. You went on to have the most prosperous period your nation has had. It can be done again.

Originally Posted by twinimini

Not meaning to hijack Bart's thread, but I think many of the higher income people wouldn't object so much to higher taxes if there weren't such huge giveaways on the other end.

As to a comparison of taxes between the two countries, most people look only to rates of taxation as the index of taxation when in reality one should look at how much in taxes do most people actually pay. Even factoring in our health care costs would distort the comparison as almost 50% of all health care costs in the US are incurred by 5% of the population. You know we could completely cure our health care problem in the US if we shipped that 5% to Canada. Just a thought.

[twinimini]

You're right it can be done again, but it is going to take a lot of doing and I really don't see anyone on the horizon who is a leader who could actually get things done. Too many payoffs from too many people. It was supposed to be government by the people and for the people and it has become government by the purchased for the purchaser.

We had a Congressional election near us a few months ago in a district that will no longer exist after the changes from the 2010 census. The cost of that electiion was over $3 million.....for a job that pays $174,000. The math doesn't work out very well, does it? That's the election process in the US today. If you spend enough you can win almost any election.

[Brewster]

I'm going to move this to a new thread "Politics" so we aren't stealing Bart's thread anymore.

[twinimini]

Sorry Bart. We didn't mean to go off in another direction. We don't like the airlines either. I have to agree with Jamie that there was a time when flying was fun. Getting off the plane and having loving reunions at the gates and the thrill of travel. Now it is the drudgery of travel. Times have changed and not for the better.

[Brewster]

I agree with Jamie too, in that if price becomes the only deciding factor then you get what you pay for.

Perhaps airlines could add a ticket class "Full service". Then you could have, First or Business Class, Full Service, Coach with all the implications they suggest.

[Canadian Dos Equis fan]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I agree with Jamie too, in that if price becomes the only deciding factor then you get what you pay for.

Perhaps airlines could add a ticket class "Full service". Then you could have, First or Business Class, Full Service, Coach with all the implications they suggest.

Full service? Is that like Full service at a massage parlour? If so what airline is that!

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I agree with Jamie too, in that if price becomes the only deciding factor then you get what you pay for.

Perhaps airlines could add a ticket class "Full service". Then you could have, First or Business Class, Full Service, Coach with all the implications they suggest.

Frontier Airlines has that with their Classic Plus, Classic, and Economy fares that have different levels of services built in. They have always been an innovator just wish they flew more places.

Jamie

[Bart/Annette]

Originally Posted by twinimini

Sorry Bart. We didn't mean to go off in another direction. We don't like the airlines either. I have to agree with Jamie that there was a time when flying was fun. Getting off the plane and having loving reunions at the gates and the thrill of travel. Now it is the drudgery of travel. Times have changed and not for the better.

No problem at all. I have been sitting back & enjoying

[Bart/Annette]

Originally Posted by 808sensation

Southwest are like the WALMARTS of airlines. i flew with them once RT and never again. ill pay extra $100 to fly Continental/UA and enjoy my individual monitor and free tequila

Ouch! I hate Walmart, but love Southwest.

No change or cancellation fees. Easy to book. Great mileage program that I can actually use. $10 extra allows you to board early. Plus they fly direct to more places from STL than any other airline.

Saying that, I have flown with passengers flying from Oakland to STL that have made 3-4 stops, and have spent all day traveling. I would pass on that

[Brewster]

Hmmm ... well I don't think it's Virgin Airlines

I was thinking more along the lines of a meal, a blankie and pillow, leg room and seat selections. All the stuff that used to be given on coach.

Actually, I've heard that Sunwing (A Canadian vacation charter airline does that for all customers though I haven't flown them yet.)

Originally Posted by Canadian Dos Equis fan

Full service? Is that like Full service at a massage parlour? If so what airline is that!

[ladyplatinum]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I think they should tax the rich to subsidize our flights, Jamie

Brewster I like your thinking!

[cfc61]

ive just had to pay an extra £160 pounds for a measely 10kg ....jeesh don't they know a girl needs many pairs of shoes!!!! grrrrrrr

[DerekandKelsey]

Originally Posted by Brewster

Hmmm ... well I don't think it's Virgin Airlines

I was thinking more along the lines of a meal, a blankie and pillow, leg room and seat selections. All the stuff that used to be given on coach.

Actually, I've heard that Sunwing (A Canadian vacation charter airline does that for all customers though I haven't flown them yet.)

All true with Sunwing, except for the leg room. Took a flight to/from Cuba with them and it was possibly the most cramped plane I ever went on. And I have been on a lot of planes. For someone with claustrophobia, I found this one a big challenge.

It may have just been that plane, but I won't take that chance again. Stick with Westjet.

(They also must use some old, "gently used" aircrafts. This plane had many broken cosmetic pieces inside and everything within it was written in Russian.)