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10-23-2011, 11:17 AM
| #31 | |
| Cancuncare's Most Interesting Man  Join Date: 10th Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,826
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__________________  As seen on http://www.facebook.com/keith.pottruff  APRIL 20th to May 1st, 2012 Trip #11, The Great one RETURNS! | |
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10-23-2011, 06:58 PM
| #32 | |
| I can choose my own title  Join Date: 12th Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,320
| Quote:
The people getting the media attention are the freaks and freeloaders. And when you have a 24/7 takeover that's what you will get. People with jobs have to go to work. I think if everyone in America had a clear and honest understanding of what happened and what is happening on wall street there would be an outc ry for regulation. It's not about taking money from the wealthy...it's about implenting rules that govern ethical business conduct.
__________________ (Partydollgirl's Hubby) April 18 - 25, 2012 !!! | |
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10-23-2011, 07:33 PM
| #33 |
| Cancuncare Guru  Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
| Do we have corporations that have taken advantage and ripped off people? Absolutely. Just like we have unions who have gone way over the edge. It really is kind of ironic to see the media brand Republicans as the tools of the corporation and ignore Obama's connections and the Democratic connections to the greed corporations. Much has been made of GE's massive income and paying no US taxes along with moving massive numbers of jobs overseas. So who does our President appoint to head up a jobs commission. Why, none other than the head of GE! Greedy non tax paying corporations have an ally in the White House, but for some reason the media can't seem to notice that. If the Occupy Wall Street faction wants to protest corporate greed, they should add all politicians and all unions into the mix. I love it when someone says "You are greedy! Give me your money!" Isn't this just another example of greed?
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10-23-2011, 08:53 PM
| #34 | |
| Cancuncare Enthusiast Join Date: 31st Jan 2011 Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 46
| Quote:
When it comes to the OWS, I am all for freedom of speach but I think it is a waste of time. The CEO's are not goint to listen to them, if it was not for businesses (both big and small) there would be very few working | |
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10-24-2011, 08:34 AM
| #35 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 12th Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,320
| Quote:
Most of my life I have been "anti-union". But I am beginning to see that we again have a need for them. In a sense Union's are responsible for the creation of the middle class. The wages they achieved for average workers translated throughout the economy to non-union workers, as well. I agree that they reached a tipping point in their demands. Globalization and effective transportation have enabled Corporations to obtain cheap labor overseas. You could argue that the primary role of a corporation is to create profit and so they are doing the right thing. But the cheap labor is there because the people in those countries are in many ways exploited. There are few if any environmental or labor standards. But somewhere along the line, the secondary role of a corporation, being a "good corporate citizen", has been lost. They are choosing to sacrifice the well being of the nation and it's people in favor of higher profits. Unions bear responsibility too, in that they just kept demanding more and more. And, absolutely, the Democrats are just as much puppets as the Republicans. The only way you get to be President today is with the backing of the people who are really in power. Scary.
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10-24-2011, 09:12 PM
| #36 | |
| Cancuncare Enthusiast  Join Date: 27th Sep 2011 Location: hinton, ab canada
Posts: 27
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lol. for the record i dont think im a "stupid"mechanic....i just laugh about it due to how few people actually trust their mechanics. inside joke i guess.lol | |
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10-25-2011, 11:04 AM
| #37 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 12th Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,320
| Quote:
__________________ (Partydollgirl's Hubby) April 18 - 25, 2012 !!! | |
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10-25-2011, 12:04 PM
| #38 |
| Cancuncare Enthusiast Join Date: 27th Sep 2011 Location: hinton, ab canada
Posts: 27
| lol. ummm, not sure what you drive but most carbs dissapeared around 1988. imports kept them a little longer. but yeah, theres a lot more to it now than 15 or 20 years ago. |
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10-25-2011, 12:39 PM
| #39 |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
| With the complexity of today's vehicles, I don't think there is such a thing as a stupid mechanic. They're pretty darn involved these days. Brewster I would put a ton of blame on the unions for the problems we're facing now. The unions pushed so many businesses out of the US because of their demands that were totally lacking in reality and with their political clout. Do you really think that allowing someone to draw unemployment for two years is a good idea? All that says to me is that we now have an unemployed person who can sit at home and draw their unemployment checks and then think about going back to work when the benefits run out. Everyone I know that is looking for help can't find it. Reduce the unemployment benefits and you'll see people get back to reality. Bottom line for me is that unions are the breeding ground for protecting the incompetent and lazy with ludicrous job rules. Performance should be what keeps someone on the job, not seniority. Did you see that the average Ford union employee has a package that pays them $58 per hour? What do you get for $58 an hour? Instead of performance by the employees I see that Ford has dropped in the quality ratings. Thanks UAW! All the unions do now is to make political contributions to buy off another politician. They stifle competition and accountability. At one times unions served a good purpose. Now they are very little other than another tool the Chinese can use to take US and Canadian jobs.
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10-25-2011, 08:18 PM
| #40 |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 12th Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,320
| A few years ago I read that Walmart was China's 7th largest trading partner. We could blame that on consumers short-sightedness, going to the cheapest price without considering the impact it has on domestic jobs. True, an auto worker making 58.00/hr seems nuts. Especially if there is validity to the stories we have all heard about their lack of productivity. We certainly all noticed the dramatic drop in quality of car from the big three. Union's went too far. But consider that until recently these automakers were still highly profitable despite this. They simply built the cost of inefficiency into the price of their products. Eventually they could no longer compete with offshore products. And because a guy could make 58.00/hr working on an assembly line, the guy in the front office made good money. And so did the retailer around the corner who sold them his products. And those people paid taxes to their community that maintained essential services like roads, fire dept, police, schools, etc. etc. Today a corporation produces products at sometimes a 5th of the cost, overseas. Their profits skyrocket. So now you have very profitable corporations and high domestic unemployment and soaring government debt with drastically reduced services. I believe the answer lies in tarrifs. Want to import products from China or India? No problem. 40% tarrif (or a figure that puts the production cost competitive with domestic production) which goes directly toward the national debt. The trarrif compensates for the lack of environmental and labor standards in the originating nations. It will never happen though. Because corporations, not politicians, run the country.
__________________ (Partydollgirl's Hubby) April 18 - 25, 2012 !!! |
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10-26-2011, 07:28 AM
| #41 |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
| There has been some discussion about tariffs, but whenever it comes up someone brings up tariffs that were instituted in 1929 by the Hoover Administration. Apparently that was supposed to be a major cause of the Great Depression. I'm certainly no economist, and would never want to be one, but I think that time frame was very different than what we have today. Back then the US and Canada were both heavy exporters to Europe and Asia. The tariffs put in place resulted in retalitory tariffs in both Europe and Asia and then added to the unemployment. For me I think a lot could be done to improve the employment situation by changes in the tax law and in unemployment benefits. Corporations will continue to move jobs overseas as long as they are penalized for putting jobs in the US and rewarded for putting jobs overseas. Overseas job creation is a child of the bottom line. Make that bottom line suffer for the movement of jobs and you will see the movement of those jobs cease.
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10-27-2011, 10:22 PM
| #42 |
| Cancuncare's Most Interesting Man Join Date: 10th Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,826
| Well how about this for a solution to greedy unions... during negotiations instead of higher benefits for unions in industries like the auto industry give them equity in the company. That way the workers take less and get to partake in the success of the company when profits increase? Basically stock options. I know of one example of this. Suncor offerred a stock option program to employees several years ago and I know some who have made upwards of six figures on the program. And most of their non-professional (geologists, engineers, managers etc) are unionized at their oilsand operations in Alberta.
__________________ As seen on http://www.facebook.com/keith.pottruff APRIL 20th to May 1st, 2012 Trip #11, The Great one RETURNS! |
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11-01-2011, 12:07 PM
| #43 | |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
| Quote:
That's an excellent idea. The only downside that I see is that the union leaders would say that the numbers can be manipulated so they won't go along with the deal. Of course, that discounts the fact that the union leaders would lose some of their power and clout and that would also seem to limit the likelihood of it working. Too bad really because it is a great idea.
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11-01-2011, 10:51 PM
| #44 |
| Cancuncare's Most Interesting Man Join Date: 10th Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posts: 1,826
| And just to put into perspective how silly a lot of the coverage of this thing is the most reasonable opinion I have heard in the media concerning the occupy movement comes from... The Ultimate Warrior! Ultimate Warrior: Wall Street Occupiers Are a Bunch of iPad-Toting Hypocrites! | TMZ.com
__________________ As seen on http://www.facebook.com/keith.pottruff APRIL 20th to May 1st, 2012 Trip #11, The Great one RETURNS! |
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11-02-2011, 09:18 PM
| #45 | |
| I can choose my own title Join Date: 12th Mar 2010 Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,320
| Quote:
OK...that was just weird...lol I'm not a big wrestling fan....actually not a fan at all. But who would have thought they are asked to provide political and sociological insight whilst being interviewed in full regale....lol. And, "The Ultimate Warrior" provided! With big words and all! I don't think the media is doing a very good job of getting the message from protestors to the masses. They seem much more interested in covering the nuts who outnumber the sane by a large margin. Here is what I think the root message is: The disparity between the wealthy and average people (1% vs 99%) is growing at an alarming rate. Incomes for most people have been stagnant for a decade while the wealthy have seen their income skyrocket in the same period. A lot of that wealth is coming from shipping jobs overseas. Very concerning to me is the power that that wealth provides. The wealthy are in more of a position to pull the strings of puppet politician than ever in recent history. They control the media for that matter. Even the `liberal`media is mocking the protestors and not addressing the real story.
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11-07-2011, 03:21 PM
| #46 |
| Cancuncare Addict  Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
| rdubnpk I think the reason there is no real direction to the whole movement is because it is so difficult to figure out exactly who is to blame. Who do you point the finger at, exactly, for getting us into the mess we are in. And more importantly, who do we see about getting us out of it. You read all the stories surrounding this mess and, Lord knows, there is plenty of blame to go around, but who is going to be held responsible? It looks like noone and the rest of us are just supposed to suck it up and pay the frigging bill. That makes me mad as hell but, like those in the movement, I see no accountability and noone taking steps to see it doesn't happen again. If that is boo-hooing, guess I'm a big boo-hooer. And as to paying the frigging bill. It looks like the people who are responsible are getting bailed out, paying themselves bonuses, and getting away scott free. Meanwhile, every proposal to pay the frigging bill results in a reduction of income and/or benefits for the middle class and the poor. I have even heard that the tax deduction for interest paid on home loans is being looked at for deletion. The movement sees this as totally unfair and it is. But again, what can you do about it but camp out on public lawns?? Last edited by rdubnpk; 11-08-2011 at 09:06 AM. |
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11-10-2011, 06:46 AM
| #47 | |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
| Quote:
It seems to me that noone is ever accountable anymore. If a judge makes a wrong decision and a killer goes loose and then kills someone, he or she has no accountability. If a politician is corrupt and sells out to special interests all that happens to them is that they get more campaign money and re-elected. A labor union bankrupts a company and what is their accountability? Why the taxpayers step in and cover their pensions. Buffalo is the second poorest city in the US so what happened in the election two days ago? Shock upon shock but every single incumbent got re-elected. No accountability starts with us and the people we elect. Sadly those of us without political connections are accountable to the nth degree. If we make a mistake, or often even if we don't make a mistake, and have an accident we can be sued and everything we own be taken. As to who ends paying the bill, it is all of us who are not politically connected. GE closes US divisions, makes over $14 billion and pays no US taxes and what happens to them? Oh, our beloved President appoints a commission to develop US jobs and he names the Chairman of GE to head it up. What is left of the middle and upper end taxpayers will be saddled with paying for the idiocy of government forever now. Those that take now exceed those that make so they can put in any toad they want to in office and we can't do a thing about it. Most of the OWS protesters are asking for more giveaways, not less. They aren't looking for change for the positive. All they are looking for is more of a free ride than they already have.
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11-10-2011, 08:58 AM
| #48 | |
| Cancuncare Enthusiast  Join Date: 29th May 2011 Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 14
| rdubnpk I dispute your analogy that it’s a movement, Whatever it started out as and what it intended to accomplish is still up for debate even among all involved, What it is now is a bunch of worthless thugs, criminals, homeless and the entitlement socialist wackos. In witch none of them have employment or seem to even care if they are employed. They have their hand out wanting someone to pay for them. Wall Street is not the problem, the real estate mortgage crash was a bomb waiting to explode. Our government with its own regulation forced banks and lenders to relax the criteria for home loan approval, That fueled the real estate boom, from new construction loans, home equity loans, commercial real estate loans, money was too easy to get, there was no having to save for 20% down payments there was no risk for the buyer he had nothing invested it was all borrowed money, Many Americans bought homes that they couldn’t afford, took out home equity loans for more than the real estate was worth. When payment couldn’t be made the buyer walked out on the loans. That was the start of the collapse, it continued through the auto industry, the banks, mortgage companies, insurance companies, etc. When the easy money spout was turned off to the overextended consumer, our economy was brought to a standstill. Company’s that were poorly managed and over leveraged , started laying off workers to try and survive, of course that added fuel to the already collapsing real estate, mortgage industry, now mr consumer had no income to pay for the house he couldn’t afford in the first place. Is it wall street’s fault or the governments fault that mr consumer made a Dumb decision in entering into a contract that he didn’t understand and couldn’t afford or is it personal responsibility? Now banks, mortgage lenders, investors, insurances companies that made very poor decisions are on the hook to pay for the loan that Mr. consumer couldn’t. afford to start with. So The government steps in and offers bail outs to ( Banks, Auto Industry, Insurance companies, state governments, foreign governments etc) Our government is now picking winners and loosers in our free economy, The term too big to fail was invented, followed by “investment in our economy” ( new term for government spending TAXES) No company is to big to fail in our free economy, if a big company fails there are many smaller companies that are ready to absorb the customers from the failed one. This senearo has been proven again and again throughout our history. We Americans have the chance every 2 years to elect competent people to have our voices heard, the congress is the group that determines were and how money is raised and is spent, Not the President Not the treasury not the federal reserve, only Congress has the authority. Why is anyone protesting Wall Street? OWS is a diversion from the underlying issues of too much government involvement in so called “social justice” , Just because someone works harder is smarter and has creative instincts doesn’t mean that individual should be penalized and his wealth taken from him and distributed to others that are lazy, incompetent, or just outright dumb? Should the government be playing the role of how much someone should make? Quote:
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11-10-2011, 12:05 PM
| #49 |
| Cancuncare Addict Join Date: 17th Feb 2010
Posts: 443
| rdubnpk So all of you guys are saying "if they are incapable, for whatever reason, of making it in America then screw them." If they can't afford health insurance and contract a disease that will be fatal if not treated, let 'em die. If the man of the house disappears and the single mother is unable to feed the kids, let them starve. I could never live with myself with that attitude. It flies in the face of all humanity and makes a mockery of any type of charitable work. But, it would certainly lower the tax base. |
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11-10-2011, 01:13 PM
| #50 | |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
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Yesterday I drove by the "Occupy Buffalo" group in front of City Hall. What I saw wasn't a bunch of idealists working for the good of man. I saw a bunch of freeloaders picking up a free lunch and being able to brag to their buddies that they got laid in a pup tent in front of City Hall. My only hope now is for a very cold winter and some really good brisk gusts of wind off Lake Erie to send this malcontents back to Mommy and Daddy.
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11-11-2011, 07:54 AM
| #51 | |
| Cancuncare Enthusiast Join Date: 29th May 2011 Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 14
| What is your definition of incapable? I am incapable of doing heart surgery, but I could if I went back to school and worked hard and studied. I am capable of doing many things, If I had to support my family I would work at Wall Mart, McDonalds, I would clean the floor with my toothbrush if that is what it would take. Take a look at the illegal immigration, they sneak in this country without a penny no home no transportation and seem to find work to support themselves and the many offspring they produce, how can that possibly be? Charity starts at home get involved with your local Charity, donate your time and money to help a family or families that has a set back, it does no one any good to just serve up free handouts because that leads to dependency, its not the government's role to be in the charity business. Where does it state in our constitution that health care or employment is guaranteed? Health Care is a perfect example of to much government regulation its a Cluster F**k of forms. Here is a perfect example I pay my DR Cash for my typical office visit and I get charged 45.00, When I use my Insurance the same Dr. bills my Insurance company 78.00 + I pay a 20.00 co-pay for the same service We blame the Dr,s and Insurance company's for the out of control prices of insurance but again who should we blame? Insurance Company's offer different policy's, You can get the all inclusive policy for 600.00 a month and have the insurance company pay for all but copay, or the major medical only policy for 85.00 a month, and have some personal responsibility for paying for the office visit out of your pocket. What is smarter? But seems you want the government to make the decision for you. I personalty have never met a Dr. that would refuse to teat anyone and I know allot of Drs. So your analogy of a person who is poor dieing from a curable disease because they have no money is a bit far fetched. Quote:
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11-28-2011, 10:40 AM
| #52 |
| Cancuncare Addict  Join Date: 17th Jan 2009
Posts: 251
| OWS= America's lowest common denominator. Of course this is IMO. |
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01-18-2012, 02:20 PM
| #53 |
| Cancuncare Guru Join Date: 9th Jan 2006 Location: WNY
Posts: 935
| You know there is a twist to this Occupy Wall Street Movement that just occured to me. I guess with these folks an Aaron Rodgers should be paid the same as say an undrafted rookie. Michael Jordan should only make as much as the lowest paid player in the NBA. I guess that Wayne Gretzky should return his millions because he was part of the 1% who made more than the rest of the players in the NHL. Along the same lines I guess we should go out and maim all the healthy deer in the forest because there is 1% that aren't as strong as the other 99%. Isn't this an apt description of the so called 99%. As Ben & Lisa have said, it is the lowest common denominator. Let's all sink to the level of the lowest common denominator and see how long we all survive.
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