I want a choice, too

[rdubnpk]

rdubnpk
I know that is unheard of for someone to challenge and incumbent, but those of us on this side of the fence ain't real happy with the big "O" either. We really need to be offered a choice just like the Repubs are.

When you ger right down to it, looking at the candidates on both sides, it is a really sad lot. Is this the best America has to offer?

[Jamie]

Well Shut My Mouth! Finally something we BOTH agree on! Who would have ever thought this would happen!

Good thing this is only 2011 cause if it was 2012 I'd be sure the world was going to end in 6 days!

There is hope for all of us.

Jamie

[Toeinwater]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
I know that is unheard of for someone to challenge and incumbent, but those of us on this side of the fence ain't real happy with the big "O" either. We really need to be offered a choice just like the Repubs are.

When you ger right down to it, looking at the candidates on both sides, it is a really sad lot. Is this the best America has to offer?

The choices on this side of the Atlantic are no better. The traditional parties, Labour, Liberal, Conservative have all become so close to each other in politic ethos and policies that there is no real choice anymore.

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Well Shut My Mouth! Finally something we BOTH agree on! Who would have ever thought this would happen!

Good thing this is only 2011 cause if it was 2012 I'd be sure the world was going to end in 6 days!

There is hope for all of us.

Jamie

rdubnpk
I felt the earth move and I wasn't having sex!!!

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Well Shut My Mouth! Finally something we BOTH agree on! Who would have ever thought this would happen!

Good thing this is only 2011 cause if it was 2012 I'd be sure the world was going to end in 6 days!

There is hope for all of us.

Jamie

LMAO... It is sad though, huh? Our choices suck up here, as well, in my opinion. A combined population of nearly 400 million and these are the best we can come up with?? lol

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by Toeinwater

The choices on this side of the Atlantic are no better. The traditional parties, Labour, Liberal, Conservative have all become so close to each other in politic ethos and policies that there is no real choice anymore.

rdubnpk
So it is a world-wide phenomenon?? I thought Tony Blair and W must have been cut from the same cloth. That isn't a complement, by the way.

[twinimini]

Our choices are pretty sad for this election coming up. I would have to say that no matter who is there, Obama has to go. This guy is so intent on giving all the money he can to those on the lower end of the spectrum that he wants to make the takers in our society the majority in this country. When that happens we will be in the final stages of our demise.

We have reached a point where almost half of the households in the US do not pay ANY income taxes which puts us close to the point where those who take will exceed those who give. It is very similar to the civil service employee unions who make huge contributions to the Democratic party and then negotiate with those same politicians for their benefits and wages. This is exactly why we are in the fix we are in with states being close to bankruptcy because of huge pensions and benefits that these unions have in essence given themselves.

Obama is the epitome of this same type of government and he has to go. I'm no fan of any of the candidates and would probably vote for Hillary if she were a choice. ( I know this is real desperation.) If it comes down to Newt or Mitt or whomever versus Obama, I've got to go with the other side. WE can't afford to keep him any longer.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
So it is a world-wide phenomenon?? I thought Tony Blair and W must have been cut from the same cloth. That isn't a complement, by the way.

In my opinion as a Brit, it is not.

Most UK Prime Ministers get into politics at a very early age, first representing local issues on a very limited basis and then working their way through the ranks until the cream of the party rises to the top. Politics is their life from day one.

In the US (as I understand as an outsider, or at least as it appears to an outsider) it's more about first establishing yourself as a rich successful person and then buying your way in as a presidential candidate. Interests are more self centered, esp for Republicans.

IMHO Tony Blair was the best PM we have had in my (politically aware) lifetime. Tony Blair is often regarded as GW's poodle in the UK, but I see him as the one who held the leash of the Dobermann.

I remember well the time of Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, now that was a team born to cause hell. And she did - the UK has never recovered and never will.

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by twinimini

Our choices are pretty sad for this election coming up. I would have to say that no matter who is there, Obama has to go. This guy is so intent on giving all the money he can to those on the lower end of the spectrum that he wants to make the takers in our society the majority in this country. When that happens we will be in the final stages of our demise.

We have reached a point where almost half of the households in the US do not pay ANY income taxes which puts us close to the point where those who take will exceed those who give. It is very similar to the civil service employee unions who make huge contributions to the Democratic party and then negotiate with those same politicians for their benefits and wages. This is exactly why we are in the fix we are in with states being close to bankruptcy because of huge pensions and benefits that these unions have in essence given themselves.

Obama is the epitome of this same type of government and he has to go. I'm no fan of any of the candidates and would probably vote for Hillary if she were a choice. ( I know this is real desperation.) If it comes down to Newt or Mitt or whomever versus Obama, I've got to go with the other side. WE can't afford to keep him any longer.

Half your population on social assistance and it strikes me that we are really just at the beginning of the retirement of the baby boom generation. That has been looming for a while now, seen as a very difficult strain on federal finances, with pension payouts and a reduced workforce. Scary.

My eldest daughter dated a guy who was third generation welfare. Scared the hell out of me. Fortunately she smartened up and got rid of him.

Like everyone here, no doubt, I have no problem whatsoever with helping the truly needy. But I have a huge problem with people that take what they don't need. I have always said that they are the worst kind of thieves. They rob from those that honestly need our help. What happened to pride and honor? (Honour for us Canadian's and Brit's...lol).

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by Steve

In my opinion as a Brit, it is not.

Most UK Prime Ministers get into politics at a very early age, first representing local issues on a very limited basis and then working their way through the ranks until the cream of the party rises to the top. Politics is their life from day one.

In the US (as I understand as an outsider, or at least as it appears to an outsider) it's more about first establishing yourself as a rich successful person and then buying your way in as a presidential candidate. Interests are more self centered, esp for Republicans.

IMHO Tony Blair was the best PM we have had in my (politically aware) lifetime. Tony Blair is often regarded as GW's poodle in the UK, but I see him as the one who held the leash of the Dobermann.

I remember well the time of Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, now that was a team born to cause hell. And she did - the UK has never recovered and never will.

.

I'm partial to Churchill. But he was the right kind of politician for his time. His speeches and resolve were inspirational to a nation under incredible duress.

Clinton was involved in politics from an early age. Not sure about other recent American presidents.

[twinimini]

Brewster, it isn't just social assistance in the area of the Social Security payments, but also welfare, food stamps, unemployment benefits, disability payments, and the list goes on and on. We subsidize the lazy and criminal and penalize the workers and business people. Many of the programs have good intentions but really lousy results. Welfare now becomes a tool to just sit at home and make more babies to draw more welfare. I see people pay for steaks with food stamps and then pull out a wad of cash to pay for their cigarettes and beer.

The system sucks the ambition out of people. We stopped yesterday to get a new cell phone for my wife and the owner of the store was voicing the same complaint I hear over and over. "I can't find anyone to work." Amazing that we can have 9% unemployment and many jobs just go begging. Why work, when you can sit at home and do some side jobs for cash? That seems to be where we are today.

[Toeinwater]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
So it is a world-wide phenomenon?? I thought Tony Blair and W must have been cut from the same cloth. That isn't a complement, by the way.

Its a World wide thing and blair and Bush are definately cut from same cloth. All politicians in the UK are interested in only one thing, whats in it for them. No leadership, no new ideas. Its been the same since the blight that was Thatcher in UK. I thought Obama wasa breath of fresh air but seems I was wrong.

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by Steve

In my opinion as a Brit, it is not.

Most UK Prime Ministers get into politics at a very early age, first representing local issues on a very limited basis and then working their way through the ranks until the cream of the party rises to the top. Politics is their life from day one.

In the US (as I understand as an outsider, or at least as it appears to an outsider) it's more about first establishing yourself as a rich successful person and then buying your way in as a presidential candidate. Interests are more self centered, esp for Republicans.

IMHO Tony Blair was the best PM we have had in my (politically aware) lifetime. Tony Blair is often regarded as GW's poodle in the UK, but I see him as the one who held the leash of the Dobermann.

I remember well the time of Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, now that was a team born to cause hell. And she did - the UK has never recovered and never will.

rdubnpk
It was definitely my opinion that Blair was little more than Bush's toadie but the flock of 1%ers that frequent this website will be quick to tell you that my opinions are (almost) always wrong................
Thatcher, I really never formed much of an opinion about. Guess I'll have to see Meryl Streep's movie version of her to finally form one............
I must add, though, that you have probably now run afoul of the 1%ers as well, having blasphemed by mentioning the name of Ronald Reagen in a less than godlike way and failing to properly genuflect prior to that same utterance.

[Jamie]

I am really honored to be lumped into the group of 1%'ers... I think you are referring to me among others....

My father was born into a cold water walk up of a store (for those that don't know what that means he was raised in a two bedroom apartment above a store in Worchester, Mass that had no running hot water). He raised me to be a man of my word, work hard, pay my debts, and never give up. And for that someone now calls me one of the top 1%'ers in the great country of the United States is one hell of an honor! I thank you very much.

I really don't think I deserve the honor, but if you think I do I guess you have a high opinion of me. Thanks!

Jamie

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I am really honored to be lumped into the group of 1%'ers... I think you are referring to me among others....

My father was born into a cold water walk up of a store (for those that don't know what that means he was raised in a two bedroom apartment above a store in Worchester, Mass that had no running hot water). He raised me to be a man of my word, work hard, pay my debts, and never give up. And for that someone now calls me one of the top 1%'ers in the great country of the United States is one hell of an honor! I thank you very much.

I really don't think I deserve the honor, but if you think I do I guess you have a high opinion of me. Thanks!

Jamie

My Father was raised on a small farm In Bonifay, FL. Never had s**t, either.
My feelings are that the government is never going to stop spending. It is ingrained in them at this point and way too easy to continue doing so. That means that someone's pocket is going to get picked to try to get the defecit under control. I expect that a good many of the tax deductions (particularly home mortgage) are about to be s-canned and my taxes are going to be raised to compensate for the past and ongoing irresponsibility. If the 1% to don't pay at least the same proportion of their income as I am going to be forced to pay, then that will prove to me that the 1%ers are truly running this country and the party of no is in their hip pocket (along with a good many of the party of "O").
That being said, I know where you are coming from and that you sincerely believe what you speak. Honesty is all one person can expect of another (wrong-headed though they may be).

[Toeinwater]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

My Father was raised on a small farm In Bonifay, FL. Never had s**t, either.
My feelings are that the government is never going to stop spending. It is ingrained in them at this point and way too easy to continue doing so. That means that someone's pocket is going to get picked to try to get the defecit under control. I expect that a good many of the tax deductions (particularly home mortgage) are about to be s-canned and my taxes are going to be raised to compensate for the past and ongoing irresponsibility. If the 1% to don't pay at least the same proportion of their income as I am going to be forced to pay, then that will prove to me that the 1%ers are truly running this country and the party of no is in their hip pocket (along with a good many of the party of "O").
That being said, I know where you are coming from and that you sincerely believe what you speak. Honesty is all one person can expect of another (wrong-headed though they may be).

My view is that Maggie Thatcher and, although I risk being polarised, Ronnie reagan were definately cut from the same cloth and started the ball rolling and certainly the UK is reaping the rewards as bad as they are of her fiscal policies, de-regulation of borrowing etc. Only my opinion though

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

If the 1% to don't pay at least the same proportion of their income as I am going to be forced to pay, then that will prove to me that the 1%ers are truly running this country and the party of no is in their hip pocket (along with a good many of the party of "O").

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

So the thing to look at is what are you REALLY paying in income tax? I mean I know my tax bracket is something like 28% but after deductions and such I think I'm averaging around 11%. At one time, years ago, I thought the 10% flat tax would be a great idea but then figure I was actually paying 8.5% and began really looking at what was being proposed.

So take what your total tax bill to the feds was last year, the final amount you owed to the government at the bottom of your 1040 and divide that by your total gross income, I think something like line 36. You might be surprised at the actual percentage. Cause I know you are reading in the paper about those rich bastards that are only paying 15%. Yours might be a lot less.

48% of the country is actually paying zero or making a profit from their tax refunds. So when people start talking about folks paying their fair share we look at them and begin to wonder.

Now I know there are individual circumstances that some of these folks fall into that getting the break from income taxes or even receiving income tax refund welfare is a good thing for them, I know and love some of those folks... but 48% of the country?

I don't think the deduction for the mortgage on your first home will ever go away. Homeownership is still the major driving force in the economy. I also think that if you look back to when they took away the deduction for credit card interest and small loan interest that the economy started it's downward slide. That cut a lot of spending and robbed a lot of fuel from the coffers.

The overall economy is very touchy and big moves in either direction cause unintended consequences all over the place. That's what was wrong with the recent stimulus packages. They spent trillions of dollars to save thousands of jobs. Sounds good till you figure out that each one of those $50,000 a year jobs on avarage cost $500,000 in spending to save. Not a very good return on investment. Would have been cheaper to just pay them straight out. But if the government hires everybody, who's generating the new income to pay taxes? Having people on unemployment for almost 3 years saying it gives them money to spend to fuel the economy is finically stupid. If I give you 10$ and get a dollar in return it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that I'm going to go broke in a real hurry. I HAVE to stop spending that $10. Even if I find someone with $50 and take $10 away from them to give it to someone else, I've only delayed the result because sooner or later that person with $50 is going to be in line for that $10 because I've taken all their money away. Then everything comes crashing down and no one, not even the old stinking rich bastards, have any money to spend and then the real depression hits! Sure some might claim we avoided a depression in 2008/2009 but the methods we used only pushed it out and has not removed it from the near horizon.

Jamie

[Brewster]

I was raised by a family of beavers, 125 miles across frozen tundra from the nearest beaver family, also raising a human child...lol.


I think if people were to define exactly who is this 1% it would help clarify the disagreement.

Are we talking about someone who started from nothing to build a manufacturing company employing 250 people in Cincinnati, Ohio? Who pays corporate federal, state and municipal taxes and who's existence supports spinoff industry to provide for the needs of the company and it's employees? An individual who, through the company, contributes to community well being with donations to support local sport teams, cultural events, etc?

Or are we talking about C.E.O's of publically held companies who receive enormous compensation for reducing production costs by moving jobs overseas and finding ways to avoid domestic taxes with offshore tax havens, loopholes, etc.?

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I was raised by a family of beavers, 125 miles across frozen tundra from the nearest beaver family, also raising a human child...lol.


I think if people were to define exactly who is this 1% it would help clarify the disagreement.

Are we talking about someone who started from nothing to build a manufacturing company employing 250 people in Cincinnati, Ohio? Who pays corporate federal, state and municipal taxes and who's existence supports spinoff industry to provide for the needs of the company and it's employees? An individual who, through the company, contributes to community well being with donations to support local sport teams, cultural events, etc?

Or are we talking about C.E.O's of publically held companies who receive enormous compensation for reducing production costs by moving jobs overseas and finding ways to avoid domestic taxes with offshore tax havens, loopholes, etc.?

rdubnpk
I refer to them as the 1%ers only because they have been so thoroughly duped into defending the Kardashian's, etc piles of money. The rich don't have to defend themselves because half of America does it for them. Even as their own taxes are raised and benefits eroded.

[twinimini]

Well I do have to compliment Obama on his one biggest success. He wanted to divide the country and he has been very successful in that endeavor. By the logic of Obama there are two pieces to this country. Those rich bastards, known as the 1% and then all the rest, known as the 99%. I should add, HIS 99%. If you are with him, then you are in the 99%, but if you are against him then you are in the 1%. Not a new tactic, but always a very effective one. If memory serves me correctly a German guy with a funny mustache did the same thing about 80 years ago or so and it worked for him also, at least for awhile.

So the rich don't pay their fair share? That's been the mantra for quite a while now. Let's look at the facts. The top 1% of taxpayers paid $337 billion in taxes. They number just under a million people. The bottom 68 million people paid $162 billion in taxes. Now remember that we're talking those that actually paid taxes. If you count all of the US, including those who paid no taxes, we come up with the top 1%, or one million people, paying more than double the taxes paid by the bottom 210 million people. Hmmmm, and those rich bastards, defined as those who make over $250,000 by the Big O, pay most of the taxes but that isn't enough in his book.

If we want this thing to survive then we have to do two things. One is to raise taxes and the other is to cut spending. Those rich bastards at the top won't put up such a fuss about a tax increase if some of the giveaways are gone. Obama can't allow those giveaways to stop because if they do then his hope of re-election will be down the dumper.

I understand your disgust with Bush, rdubnpk, but what about Obama's war? The war that he wants to create right here in the US. The war between what he terms the 1% and what he wants to be the other 99% and what he wants for his supporters.

If you want to know who makes up that 1%. The vast majority of them are doctors and lawyers and even college presidents who now average over a $1 million per year in compensation. There are more than a few sports figures and a whole big bunch of politicians, but most of them are people you know or whose services you utilize. Some are execs, but not most of them.

So rdubnpk, the next time you have to go to a medical specialist make sure you tell them how disgusted you are with them that they don't pay their "fair share" of taxes and they should pay much more in taxes so that the drug dealer on the corner can continue to drive his Escalade. Oh yeah, and tell him or her that they should quit paying their malpractice insurance so that the lawyer who sues them all the time won't get rich either.

The 1% that you vehemently despise isn't who you think it is and just maybe, just maybe, you should learn who pays what and how you just may be duped by a media and a politician into thinking something is true that is just flat out a lie.

[twinimini]

Originally Posted by Brewster

I was raised by a family of beavers, 125 miles across frozen tundra from the nearest beaver family, also raising a human child...lol.

Brewster I should have known you had some connection to beavers!

[rdubnpk]

Originally Posted by twinimini

Well I do have to compliment Obama on his one biggest success. He wanted to divide the country and he has been very successful in that endeavor. By the logic of Obama there are two pieces to this country. Those rich bastards, known as the 1% and then all the rest, known as the 99%. I should add, HIS 99%. If you are with him, then you are in the 99%, but if you are against him then you are in the 1%. Not a new tactic, but always a very effective one. If memory serves me correctly a German guy with a funny mustache did the same thing about 80 years ago or so and it worked for him also, at least for awhile.

So the rich don't pay their fair share? That's been the mantra for quite a while now. Let's look at the facts. The top 1% of taxpayers paid $337 billion in taxes. They number just under a million people. The bottom 68 million people paid $162 billion in taxes. Now remember that we're talking those that actually paid taxes. If you count all of the US, including those who paid no taxes, we come up with the top 1%, or one million people, paying more than double the taxes paid by the bottom 210 million people. Hmmmm, and those rich bastards, defined as those who make over $250,000 by the Big O, pay most of the taxes but that isn't enough in his book.

If we want this thing to survive then we have to do two things. One is to raise taxes and the other is to cut spending. Those rich bastards at the top won't put up such a fuss about a tax increase if some of the giveaways are gone. Obama can't allow those giveaways to stop because if they do then his hope of re-election will be down the dumper.

I understand your disgust with Bush, rdubnpk, but what about Obama's war? The war that he wants to create right here in the US. The war between what he terms the 1% and what he wants to be the other 99% and what he wants for his supporters.

If you want to know who makes up that 1%. The vast majority of them are doctors and lawyers and even college presidents who now average over a $1 million per year in compensation. There are more than a few sports figures and a whole big bunch of politicians, but most of them are people you know or whose services you utilize. Some are execs, but not most of them.

So rdubnpk, the next time you have to go to a medical specialist make sure you tell them how disgusted you are with them that they don't pay their "fair share" of taxes and they should pay much more in taxes so that the drug dealer on the corner can continue to drive his Escalade. Oh yeah, and tell him or her that they should quit paying their malpractice insurance so that the lawyer who sues them all the time won't get rich either.

The 1% that you vehemently despise isn't who you think it is and just maybe, just maybe, you should learn who pays what and how you just may be duped by a media and a politician into thinking something is true that is just flat out a lie.

rdubnpk
Time will tell who was truly being duped and I don't think it's me.

[rdubnpk]

rdubnpk
Just to set the record straight..I do not have the god-like ability that some of you seem to have to know that I am absolutely right about things (this sounds mean but I am just stating the case). I see things going on around me that just don't seem right or justifiable or whatever. You must admit that the rich and super rich seem to be running this country (and the world) and the rest of us are just scrambling for the left-overs. If that is the way it is supposed to be than that is the way it will be. There is nothing we can do to change it. They hold all the cards and with money comes power.
Just like global warming...You see things going on around you that would indicate that something is badly amiss but can you absolutely prove it? So, in the final analysis, either it is or it isn't occuring. There is nothing we can do to change it, especially when some of those in power are bound to deny it in the hopes of reaping larger profits. Again, if those naysayers are powerful enough, then their will will be done.
That is why I say only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

[twinimini]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
Time will tell who was truly being duped and I don't think it's me.

Well, let me just put it this way, I have been doing taxes for over 30 years. I teach taxation to other CPA's. I've had my own firm for over 30 years. I've been brought into litigation to testify as an expert witness regarding taxes. We do tax returns for people who live in 26 states and even US citizens living overseas. We do returns for people who make less than $10,000 a year to those that PAY over $1,000,000 a year in taxes. I don't get my information from a the American version of "The Peoples Daily" known better as the NY Times. I get my information from what I see in the roughly 1500 returns my firm does every year. I get my information from the US Tax Codes and statistics that I have to deal with on a daily basis.

The 1% you attack with such vigor is not who you think it is. They also pay far more than just "their share" of taxes. If you are so concerned about the rip off of the American public you need to look at those who take from the system more so than those that give to the system.

Liberalism is a wonderful idea that just doesn't work. Presidents from Lyndon Johnson on said they were going to eliminate poverty and they generated huge bureaucratic programs to accomplish this and where are we today? Worse off than we were when it all started. Carter created the Energy Department which was going to eliminate our dependance on foreign oil and it accomplished what? Absolutely nothing but employing a lot of people who don't have a clue about anything remotely related to energy.

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd stood before us with Andrew Cuomo at their side proclaiming that after they had sponsored such wonderful liberal legislation that "All Americans, regardless of their economic standings, will have a home of their own." How'd that little bit of liberalism work out?

If you think attacking those that work and generate income and taxes for the sake of giving to those who will not work and who only know how to take from the system is a good system, then be prepared to learn how to speak Chinese. When you reach a certain point in taxation where someone says "Why bother? The government is just taking more of what I make than I keep!", then all innovation and incentive stops and we are all looking for the gravy train.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

Just to set the record straight..I do not have the god-like ability that some of you seem to have to know that I am absolutely right about things (this sounds mean but I am just stating the case). I see things going on around me that just don't seem right or justifiable or whatever. You must admit that the rich and super rich seem to be running this country (and the world) and the rest of us are just scrambling for the left-overs. If that is the way it is supposed to be than that is the way it will be. There is nothing we can do to change it. They hold all the cards and with money comes power.
Just like global warming...You see things going on around you that would indicate that something is badly amiss but can you absolutely prove it? So, in the final analysis, either it is or it isn't occuring. There is nothing we can do to change it, especially when some of those in power are bound to deny it in the hopes of reaping larger profits. Again, if those naysayers are powerful enough, then their will will be done.
That is why I say only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

You see that’s where we differ. So there are some super rich folks that make some decisions that the rest of us don’t get input into. God love them cause I have better things to do with my life.

And money does not always equal power. If so Gandhi would have never succeeded in forcing the British to give India its independence.

I am not scrambling for the leftovers. I’m creating my own meal. There is no limit to the pie. You can have all you want and I can have all I want. For me to have more does not mean YOU have to have less. That’s just the Liberal justification for not having to try to succeed. “He has it and I don’t so I can’t succeed!” Bullshit! If you want it, work hard and go get it. Sure it’s not easy, but boy is it worth it when you succeed.

And no one disagrees that global warming is happening. Nope, actually read or listen to what they say, not what someone else tells you they are saying. Everyone knows it’s getting hotter. Been getting hotter since the last ice age. Will continue to get hot till the start of the next ice age. The question is why? Some say its man and all the pollution he is creating. Other say that the sun is in an intense period of solar activity and is generating more heat. To be honest I think it a combination of both. (Believe it or not, I heard a “scientist” say on a PBS show just three days ago that the sun has no effect on how hot it is here on earth. I back it up on TIVO three times to listen to him say that! He says it’s all man made.) So those that blame man want to stop industry in its tracks. No more coal, no more oil. But if you watch closely to Al Gore’s home movie, you will see that all the forest being burned in the under-developed countries is creation far more pollution than the largest industrial countries. But you have to watch quick cause they gloss over that real fast. So their answer is that the “rich” countries pay a carbon tax for their pollution while the people like China pay none and they have now passed the US as the leading polluter. Again, it’s the tax the rich cause they have succeeded and hell I’m not sure where the carbon tax money that is being paid to the UN even goes…

But it always seems to boil down to we have to do something about the “Man”.

Occupy Wall Street is based upon - I went to school for 15 years on student loans and now I have to actually go find a job! Damn, I can’t afford to pay all this back so the “man” has established a system to keep me down! Bullshit! You borrowed the money, signed a piece of paper saying you were going to pay it back and abused the handout system to your advantage for as long as you could. Now the bill is due! Be an adult and own up to your own responsibilities!

There is no one keeping you or anyone else down. There is only a philosophy that says there is an end sum equation where for me to get something someone else has to give up something. That is not what this nation was created on, people made their own way. When they needed help, they received it but no one owes you a damn thing because you were born. You either work for what you want or sit in the corner and fight for the leftovers. Me? I choose to make my own meal.

Jamie

[twinimini]

Originally Posted by rdubnpk

rdubnpk
Just to set the record straight..I do not have the god-like ability that some of you seem to have to know that I am absolutely right about things (this sounds mean but I am just stating the case). I see things going on around me that just don't seem right or justifiable or whatever. You must admit that the rich and super rich seem to be running this country (and the world) and the rest of us are just scrambling for the left-overs. If that is the way it is supposed to be than that is the way it will be. There is nothing we can do to change it. They hold all the cards and with money comes power.
Just like global warming...You see things going on around you that would indicate that something is badly amiss but can you absolutely prove it? So, in the final analysis, either it is or it isn't occuring. There is nothing we can do to change it, especially when some of those in power are bound to deny it in the hopes of reaping larger profits. Again, if those naysayers are powerful enough, then their will will be done.
That is why I say only time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

Using your same logic I would have to draw a much different conclusion. For example, I think we both agree that it is wrong for someone to donate to a campaign and then use that donation to line their own pockets. That is exactly what has been going on with State governments for years and years and why most states are in deep financial trouble. Who ripped them off? Why none other than their own unions.

You talk about not being able to make changes to a broken system and refer to corporate profits. How about union donations and the unbridled greed of those unions? What happened when the governors Wisconsin and Ohio tried to bring those unions into reality? Why those same unions totally disrupted things in Wisconsin and literally brought the government to a halt to force their ideas and greed on the rest of the taxpaying members of that state.

When Ohio tried to do the same thing the unions got it put on the ballot and spent over $40 milllion to keep their cushy union benefits and salaries while making massive political donations to those that negotiate their contracts.

Here in Erie County, NY, where Buffalo is, we had a County Executive who bucked the union. He's gone now after the union spent millions getting him out of there so they could be back in control. Oh, if you want to apply for a county job right now you have to pick up an application at the Service Employees Union hall not at County Hall. That is the same union that has been indicted for racketeering and corruption. We have more county employees than Cook County which has Chicago as a hub and we have less than a third of their population. We also have some of the highest real estate taxes in the US to pay for the corrupt unions.

Oh and a couple of other little gems. When Boeing wanted to open a factory in SC the feds sued them to stop them from opening because the union in Seattle didn't like it that they were opening in a right to work state. Also the Supreme Court is supposed to hear whether or not it is okay for a union to use violence because it is in the support of organized labor. How's that for skewed government?

Still think it's just those evil corporations that control things?

[Ben & Lisa]

The problem is the bottom 50% or so do not pay any taxes and also consume a disproportionate amount of government services.

[Ben & Lisa]

Originally Posted by Brewster

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I'm partial to Churchill. But he was the right kind of politician for his time. His speeches and resolve were inspirational to a nation under incredible duress.

Clinton was involved in politics from an early age. Not sure about other recent American presidents.

I like Churchill also. He also happened to be a conservative.... I couldnt resist, Brewster!

[Brewster]

Originally Posted by Ben & Lisa

I like Churchill also. He also happened to be a conservative.... I couldnt resist, Brewster!

Oh crap...that's right..lol


Actually..I've voted Conservative most of my life. The trouble now, as I see it, is Conservatives are becoming idiots and Liberals are becoming Commies. All the while pretending to be middle of the road and everything to everyone.

[Ben & Lisa]

Originally Posted by Brewster

Oh crap...that's right..lol


Actually..I've voted Conservative most of my life. The trouble now, as I see it, is Conservatives are becoming idiots and Liberals are becoming Commies. All the while pretending to be middle of the road and everything to everyone.

The real problem is most politician do not have the balls to make the right choices, however painful they may be. instead the pander to their base and get elected over and over shafting the future generations in the process.