Why do you live in Cancun?

[lambert13]

Originally Posted by RiverGirl

If there was true respect for the land here then claims of eco-anything would be convincing and a lot more people would want to come here.

That is by far, one of the biggest reasons I have not been back to Mexico in a few years.

Dolphin swim businesses, dynamiting mangrove for hotel construction, reef destruction from tourists and local businesses, etc etc.

Perhaps an already established environmental group (ie. Greenpeace, World Wildlife Fund, Surfrider) could step in to advocate for the environment? I am a member and supporter of Surfrider and they do amazing work worldwide to keep the oceans clean and vibrant.

Bottom line...........gotta start somewhere.

P.S. I stayed at an "eco" place in Tulum. There were no lights or power (except for the office) but that was as far as the eco theme went. They still used disposable plastic bottles for water, cleared seaweed of the beach everyday (which is very bad for the beach), etc. Pretty disappointing.

[V]

Gene, I don't know where you're from, but where I'm from (Texas) people relieve themselves in the woods, as well as in bathrooms, and think they're being polite not to relieve themselves at the side of the road.

I suppose when people experience enough disappointments, where ever they may live, eventually they'll come to dislike the place, and perhaps the people who live there, as well. Perhaps that was the case in your unfortunate experience of Cancun.

"Bumps" and other things we may perceive as "rudeness" has everything to do with what we're accustomed to. Mexicans are, in my experience, amazingly polite people. (My biggest worry here is that I'll be perceived as being rude, by Mexicans, as I'm just not familiar enough with their rituals of polite interaction, though I've admired it on those occasions when I've had a chance to witness it, up close.)

As for damage to cars, well, perhaps sounding a little callous, I'd just say that's what happens to cars. Own one long enough, and it'll show it's age, as an accumulation of "bumps" of another kind. Some of the "signs" of that age will have been avoidable, others not. As for people scratching cars, intentionally, that happens in London, as well as Cancun. Perhaps it happens where you're from, as well, in some neighborhoods, if the car is expensive enough.
___________________

Every country will be a different experience, and those who are stimulated by being in a place just a little different from what they're used to can enjoy a foreign country. If it has to be just like home to be comfortable, and acceptable, it will always fail to measure up.

Mexico is not, when compared to the rest of the world, a poor country. It is, according to what I've read, the twelfth richest country in the world. Nor is it a "developing" country, just begging for us to show it the way forward. It is a very old nation, almost as old as the U.S. It has it's own traditions and it's own ways- not all of them good, as any honest Mexican will tell you.

Those of us who are here, and finding it a generally satisfying place to be, see the shortcomings, but find them acceptable, on balance, as part of the package.

[RiverGirl]

The reasons you have for moving to a place will have a lot to do with how much you like that place. I now think that I moved to Cancun for many of the wrong reasons. And I have made huge and terrible sacrifices to be here, which have made me bitter and frustrated. I try hard not to let that bitterness show, but honestly I'm damn tired and Cancun isn't getting better, it isn't getting safer, it isn't becoming a nicer place. It's gotten markedly worse since I've been here.

It seems to me that the only people I know who are really happy living here are people who don't read the papers and don't know what's going on here. That's a terrible thing to say, but I see it over and over again.

My daughter could not stand her school here. One of her teachers told me that she was one of only two kids in the whole school who read recreationally. Whether that was true or not she was definitely too nerdy to fit in comfortably. And she was one of the only atheists in the school, which was a painful distinction for her (a teacher made that public and should not have).

So I sent her, with my blessing, off to a better school, a school full of atheists and nerds; a school back in the US. As a result she's growing up without me. We don't get a do-over on her childhood. I'm very glad she's in a better school, the education she's getting now towers over what she was getting here at IAS. And as a consequence she will have many more and better opportunities in her life, starting with which colleges will accept her. But I miss her like crazy.

And I often think that I'm missing out on her childhood so I can, what?, live somewhere that people can't even pick up their own garbage? And where the tortured bodies of execution victims are found with increasing frequency? And where animals are treated horribly? And where 10% of the population can't even read a cereal box? And where corruption is so ingrained that people teach their children how to bribe cops?

One of the best things about living here has been the perspective I've gotten on both Mexico and on the US. I now see just how spoiled rotten my own country is. And I now understand all the reasons why Mexicans clamor to cross the border to live in the US. I'm am now very sympathetic to people who will risk their lives to get away from Mexico. And when I move back to the US I plan to work with immigrants there.

There are things I like about living here, I like my house, I like the animals I've adopted off the street who now live with me. I like the charity work I do to help people and to save street animals. I like living rent-free in a house with no mortgage on it. I like the weather.

So, um, I like staying home with my pets...and I like helping solve problems that the government should have solved ages ago...and I like the weather. That's not enough.

Unfortunately we can't move back to the US yet, but as soon as we can we will.

Mexico is an old country. My husband likes to say that Mexico had 300 years of slavery and has only had 200 years of freedom, so people here often still think like slaves.

But Mexico is also a rich country. According to my favorite economist, Jeffrey Sachs, Mexico could lift itself out of poverty, it has the resources to do that (unlike many countries in say, Africa). But corruption and lack of goodwill prevent Mexico from progressing to that point.

I'll be very happy when I can come back to Mexico on vacation. As they say, Mexico is a great place to visit.

[coby]

This thread has become quite interesting! I should have checked back sooner

I just wanted to add a few things relating to quality of life. I am by no means an expert on Mexico or in Mexican culture. That said, I've spent a lot of time in many different places in Mexico including living in Zacatecas several years ago, and living with my Mexican sweetheart the past 2 years; first in the US and then here in Playa. Here are some of the conclusions I've come to over time

-Cancun, Playa del Carmen, and the Riviera Maya in general is an anomaly in Mexican culture. Laura, a Guadalajara native, describes the culture here as 'fea' -- ugly. Jalisquillos can be a prideful bunch, but I think what she is getting at is that the culture here is a hodgepodge of Mexican culture, long held and deeply rooted Mayan customs, and the overbearing presence of rapid transformation and growth. That creates a lot of tension and the lack of a unified identity; but it's also something that can pass with time. Until that happens though, you get all of the hardships of migrant populations into urban areas: poverty, crime, property destruction.

-One thing that has been the same in every place I've been in Mexico, is that most Mexicans won't even waste the time to talk about improving the government/infrastructure/police/whatever because they have absolutely no faith that it even matters. In a way, it's a very 'and so it goes...are the tamales ready yet?' kind of attitude. The reason this is important, is that if you want to live here, you will either accept it and get on with life or be miserable. All of the expats I've known in Mexico that wanted to try and 'improve things' just ended up hopelessly frustrated. I have faith that Mexico will change with time for the better -- but it won't have anything to do with foreigners pushing the agenda. If you can accept that you are powerless to better the country and still get on with life, you can probably get along just fine here. On the flipside, this general attitude probably also pushes along the whole laid back vibe that can be achieved here.

-My final point is about the treatment of animals. I'm a big animal lover, proud parent of a pair of Jack Russell mutts, and can't stand to see animals suffer. I definitely think that the animal treatment is better back in the US than here in general. However, it's not *that* much better. The last city I was in (~180k pop) euthanized 2,000 dogs a year Also, I was witness a very cruel case of animal abuse here a few days ago. It got so bad that I went up on the roof top and the abuser and I had words...not pretty words. He was American. I don't know if that means Mexico facilitates such terrible behavior or it's just plain and simple that there are cruel and mean people everywhere.

[V]

RG, that was very brave of you to share these personal details with so many of us. I hope everyone will respect the depth of the emotions you've expressed here.

I'm reminded of the Chinese saying, "eating bitterness". They often attribute success in life- or merely surviving if that's all that's possible under the circumstances- to their ability, as a people, to "eat bitterness". By this they mean the ability to accept real hardship as necessary at times, sometimes for a very long time, indeed. They teach this expression and this way of looking at things to their children, from an early age, because they feel their survival as a people has often depended upon it.

As I understand from what you've told us, though the situation is bitter for you, you are choosing to stay here, with your husband, though you don't want to be here; and, giving up the joy of having your child near you in order for her to have an opportunity at a better education. I don't think either your husband, or your child, is apt to forget this sacrifice, and the bitterness you are choosing to eat, for the sake of others.

[RiverGirl]

V - Thank you, that was very apt and quite eloquent. I appreciate it.

[cunspin]

This has turned out to be a very good thread, Rivergirl I could not even imagine being in your shoes as far as your daughter goes and I am sure I would be in the exact same way in the same circumstance.
As you know I worked for many years "trying" to make a difference in Cancun and in some ways I did but as Coby stated

-One thing that has been the same in every place I've been in Mexico, is that most Mexicans won't even waste the time to talk about improving the government/infrastructure/police/whatever because they have absolutely no faith that it even matters. In a way, it's a very 'and so it goes...are the tamales ready yet?' kind of attitude. The reason this is important, is that if you want to live here, you will either accept it and get on with life or be miserable. All of the expats I've known in Mexico that wanted to try and 'improve things' just ended up hopelessly frustrated. I have faith that Mexico will change with time for the better

I find that to be right on the money, save your sanity before you try to save the country . I have learned to just live and let live.
On a side note.... as you know my daughter has attended the Monte Verde School for 7 years and I really have been impressed with the philosophy and teachings, they have had an excellent recycling program and all students are environmentally conscious, they visit the Años Dorados and actually had a field trip to Cancuns Library (such as it is) this week.So at least some younger generations are getting good education. It is probably just a drop in the ocean but I feel at least that I am doing my part.

[gene37412]

After reading all the post from RG I feel really bad about me hating Cancun. The problems I had and the opinion I have about the place is nothing to hers.

I guess to sum up my feeling for the place is this.

Cancun, and the other places I have been in Mexico are about 40 to 50 years behind in everything. I think I now have a better undrstanding of how the oppressed blacks in the South-East United States felt during that era. I hated being treated like a 4th class person in a 3rd world country. Just look at the paper there. One can't apply for this/any job because they are not Mexican, not male/female, over 30, not cute enough and on and on. As a child of the 50/60's I grew up during some really rough times from a discrimination point of view and never really understood it. Now I think I have a much better understanding of it. After the way I was treated I really look forward to the day when I can burn the house down as was done during that era. Meaning...if I ever happen to come across a Mexican in the USA who is here without papers I will be the first in line at the police station to turn him in......PAY BACK....

[RiverGirl]

Living in Mexico has made me more sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants in the US.

The immigration system in the US is barbaric.

One friend who works for ICE (US Immigration and Customs Enforcement) said that he thinks the system in the US is "so screwed up that [he] would rather have major dental surgery once a week than go through that system."

Turning in illegals in the US is no way to get revenge for how shitty a time you had in Mexico. Being illegal in the US is its own form of punishment. It's a torturous way to live, always looking over your shoulder. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and my hat is off to those who can stomach it.

Use your anger for something good...anger is the gift of inspiration in dragon's clothes. Turn it around and use it for good.

[mixz1]

And, I'll repeat my question to Gene. What Utopia are you now living in? You still haven't updated your profile.

[gabesz]

Glad to be away from there and back in the good ole U.S. of A.

Being an American who currently lives in the USA I find that you are really rude to the Mexicans for the sake of promoting your US residency.

What you said in your entire quote may be true, but if you are willing to travel and live in a foreign country you must get used to their way of life.

Its people like you who give us Americans a bad name.

[gabesz]

As an example; Driving my friend to the airport, I experienced a flat tire. During the time it took to change the tire 3 vehicles stopped with offers to help. The best one was a bus driver, who seeing the luggage on the side of the road stopped and asked if I needed him to take my friend to the airport. In New York or LA, they would have probably just stolen the luggage. In Rome they would have stolen the luggage, emptied our pockets, changed the tire and stolen the car.

Miz: This is so true and yet so funny about Rome. Go figure the guy just hates not being in the USA. So he should stay here forever and never leave its borders. Better for Mexico.

[RiverGirl]

Guys - Gene has a right to his anger. And a right to his opinion. It would be healthy if his anger was channeled into something more helpfum but that will take time. But anger is still legitimate.

And it's hard to make your feelings public here, so don't pounce on him just because you don't share his feelings.

Mexico is a tough place to live, it's not for everybody. But we don't need to bash people who a vocal about this not being paradise.

The best thing about life is diversity. People have diverse opinions and experiences.

Gene is happy to be back in the US, I'm happy for him. Sometimes I want to move back just so I can simply mail a frickin' letter and be sure it will get there. It's the simple things in life that make us happy with where we live.

[V]

Often, perceptions are shaped by expectations, and this is certainly true of life in foreign countries. Going in with a minimum of expectations, one way or the other, is helpful to the adaptation process.

One of the things that has hindered my adaptation to Mexico is the impression that it's just like back home (never a problem in China, for example). This can happen if you're from Texas, like I am, where many parts of San Antonio will look, sound and smell just like Cancun centro. I have to remind myself that this is a new place for me, and that there will be differences that I need to be sensitive to or I'll never fit in, here.
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Since RG mentioned the Mexican post, I'll add my experiences, so far.

The Mexican post has a poor reputation for reliability among the locals. I have found a similar attitude towards the post in every country I've ever lived in, including the U.S. In each country I've lived, I've gotten pleasure (perhaps perverse) out of using the local post, regularly. I've used it for personal mail, and for business. Mexico has been no exception.

Early on, I got a post box in Cancun centro, and started sending and receiving mail. The postal clerks always ask me, wouldn't you like to send this by registered mail? I decline, and use the equivalent of first class, international mail (standard). I write my mom, correspond with my professional organizations, etc. Recently, I needed to get my university degrees apostilled, so I corresponded with the Secretary of State about that. To date, nothing sent in either direction has gone missing. I have sent and received mainly letters, sometimes containing checks; and, sealed, manila colored envelops containing my business correspondence.

I have had one little alarm, when I learned that my mom, who is 89, and thought she would be helpful, mailed a new credit card to me in Mexico. [I was sweating this one, and would have stopped her from doing it if I'd had a chance.] It arrived, and had not been tampered with- somewhat to my amazement- as had another letter containing a plastic, credit card sized object, my professional identification card, on another occasion.

The mail routinely takes 10-20 days to get here from the U.S., a little more than half that in the other direction, so speed is not their forte; but, mail has worked here as well as it has worked in any of the other countries I've lived in. However, I'm not recommending anyone try it because, as I said, expectations can shape perceptions- and may affect results, as well!

[RiverGirl]

V - I'm still waiting for a Mother's Day card to arrive. It was sent from the US in 2004.

I do think that people have better results with the postal system here if they rent a post office box. At least that fits what I've seen and heard.

When we moved here someone sent my hubby a monthly subscription to National Geographic (in English). We got about 4 issues a year, the rest were swiped before they got to us. One was delivered in the pouring rain, so it arrived but was unreadable. I finally canceled that subscription.

I once ordered a book from Amazon and it was sent via the post office. It did arrive, late. But we had to keep going back to the Post Office and asking after it. Finally some guy there says "oh wait, let me look in one more spot." He runs to the back and we see him crawl under a desk that is up against a wall, he drags out a beaten-to-shit box that has my book in it. It was not a trust-inspiring moment.

[V]

Hi, RG. Not to get into your business, but I'd quit waiting for that Mother's Day card.

I think one of the things that has to cause some trouble is the very complex system of addresses used here; for example, SM15, M1, E8, D205! I mean, really....

However, even my dear old mom had managed it, back before I got the A.P.; but, even now, she persists in using the wrong zip code, giving one for where I used to live in the U.S. (Fortunately, the Mexican post ignores the error, and delivers to me, anyway.)

[rawkus]

Haha, Im waiting for my Degree(sent from Australia, April 28th, 2007) :?

It was sent via Fed Ex and the traces end when the the "package" entered Mexico...

Im sure someone in DF can buy my Eco-tourism degree for 200 pesos now :lol:

[mixz1]

Originally Posted by V

Since RG mentioned the Mexican post, I'll add my experiences, so far.

The Mexican post has a poor reputation for reliability among the locals. I have found a similar attitude towards the post in every country I've ever lived in, including the U.S.

Your mail experience is fortunate and an exception to the rule. I cannot count the number of items I have NOT received that were sent through the Mexican postal system. I have had credit cards disappear, with the attending hassles that come from that. Being a member of AMPAS, I have never, I repeat never had a screening DVD arrive except when sent by registered mail. In fact my experience was instrumental in the Academy changing over to FedeX delivery for screeners and scripts. I've had computer parts go missing and magazine subscriptions co-opted, either arriving in obviously opened and read condition of not arriving at all.

I also have had outbound mail go up in smoke or arrive 20 to 30 days after I mailed it. There's a reason why my Mexican banks, CFE and other services deliver their mail by private courier. The one exception is TelMex, and frankly I don't understand how that bill always arrives.

After the first 6 months down here, I contracted with one of the private mail services down here. It was worth the expense and I've never looked back.

And one last comment: I never had a doubt when I dropped an envelope into the mail in the US. Nor in London or Berlin, where if mailed early enough in the morning, intercity mail arrived that same afternoon. I once asked a Mexican postman how often they picked up the mail from the mailbox in front of the Convention Center where we were standing. His reply was, "Once in a while. I wouldn't use it if I were you."

[V]

Hi, Mixz1, now I'm beginning to worry that my mail is just not very attractive....

I'm not surprised at all by what you've added, and anytime I need a high level of certainty of delivery, or speed, or both, I'll continue to use FedEx, in spite of Rawkus' bad experience!

[rawkus]

V: Thats not all the important stuff that Fed Ex Mex has managed to screw up for me :-o

They managed to "loose" my brand new passport somewhere between DF and Cancun...

Now, I wouldnt care if it was simple letters etc., but sensitive stuff as my degree and my passport is NOT acceptable.

The worst part? Not even ONE apology :roll:

Needless to say I dont use Fed Ex in Mexico any longer, and most likely never will again...

I guess Im just very unlucky, haha.

[cunspin]

The reason the Telmex bill always arrives is that nobody messes with Slim :wink:

[johndish]

RG,

When i first moved back I mailed all the bills for the simple satisfaction of doing so. That lasted an entire month now everything is paid online.

However recieving mail is still as fun as it ever was. We have netflix and beleive it or not if they show a returned DVD as outstanding and you "sent it" they will simply mark it up as recieved and send you a new dvd.

I have many fond memories of Mexico and my time there. There are many things that I miss but, I am happy to be back in the U.S.

[V]

Well, Rawkus, that is bad enough to make one rethink using FedEx. Sorry about the string of bad luck, particularly as it affected some pretty important stuff and, I'm sure, necessitated a lot of backtracking to make up for the losses.
__________________

I've spoken, generally, about what led us to settle in Cancun. Now, I'd like to talk about what's keeping us here, and perhaps some of the rest of you have something to share, but with a different emphasis; because, you see, for us it's primarily about health and well being.

Both of us are "semi" retired. We like to work, but we don't have to hit it as hard as we did in former years. We now enjoy devoting more time to getting fit, staying fit and healthy; and, having fun.

For us, the availability of lots of tropical fruits at relatively low prices in Cancun is appealing. And, the climate here lends itself to outdoor exercise most of the year. There are about six hours a day- this time of year- when we mostly stay indoors, but almost any early AM you can find us out exercising in one form or another. Also, the air is quite clean, especially if you happen to live anywhere near the sea, as we do. This makes me happy to take a deep breath. Without getting too personal, both of us have never been as fit as we are now, after six months here. With this added fitness comes added energy, relative fatiguelessness (perhaps "tirelessness" is a real word!), and zest for living.

Recently, we've been taking advantage of the "low season" discounts to spend time at some of the places tourists stay when they come to Cancun. This has also been fun.

I appreciate that Cancun is an important enough international destination to attract some "name" entertainers, and some (relatively) important sporting events.

For those who like outdoor activities, there seem to be lots of opportunities for participation in competitive and other sports; and, of course, water sports. The existence, nearby, of world class diving venues makes living here attractive for those who enjoy visiting the undersea world, which we've now tried for the first time.

Little by little, as we get better acquainted with the environment here, we are enjoying "life in Cancun" more and more.

[mixz1]

Originally Posted by V

...I've spoken, generally, about what led us to settle in Cancun. Now, I'd like to talk about what's keeping us here, and perhaps some of the rest of you have something to share, but with a different emphasis; because, you see, for us it's primarily about health and well being...

Well said V. For us, it's exactly the same. We may grouse about the mail, the immigration hassles, and even the incredible patience that seems native to most Mexicans and trying to those of us who have spent the majority of our lives in the fast lane. But in balance life here is healthier and we are very content.

This is our 5th year here. After the first 6 months we were both able to say that we had never been healthier. In my case, weaned off a 12 year blood pressure medication addiction and my wife off a daily Prilosec dose for the ulcers she earned during 21 years of nightclub and restaurant management. The ulcers went away after about 2 months here, even though we were going through a particularly trying rebuild of our home. Come to think of it, I didn't stroke out either .

After breathing New York air for most of my life, the Caribbean atmosphere, while corrosive to all things ferrous, has had a wonderful effect on both of us. We swim most days, dive on others, do some beach walking and in general enjoy the non-scheduled life of retirees.

We both find that on our trips back to the States or to Europe to see friends and family, we start yearning for home by the end of the first week. That speaks volumes for how much we like and need our new life here.

Of course there's the financial advantages too. Our retirement dollar goes a lot farther here than it would have in New York and to relocate to a community that would present all of what we like about Cancun, i.e. climate, beaches, sports, etc, would probably have meant locations as expensive or maybe even more expensive than our New York digs. And no, relocation to East Elbow Bend, Iowa was not going to be in the cards.

[RiverGirl]

It seems to me that the happiest people I know here are retirees.

For us Cancun has been healthier in some ways and much less healthy in others.

In Colorado we were outdoors riding bikes, skiing or running almost every day of the year. Hubby rode his mountain bike at least 3 days a week and played squash usually 5 times a week. We had a world class gym 5 minutes from our house and it cost us $60 USD a month.

Here there isn't a gym as nice at that one, none come remotely close. Sport City is a sorry joke at more than twice the money.

Here mountain biking means riding on a dirt road, which to Mr Technical Husband means it's nothing like mountain biking in Colorado was.

I love running hills and talus slopes. Doing a run with 1000 feet of vertical gain in it was sometimes a daily event for me. Here it's so flat that EVERY time I run here I feel that the fun part of running is missing. I keep running because I still love it, but running here, for me is not close to the same fun it was in the mountains. And so I run less often and with less excitement.

The big health positives for us here in Cancun are the clean air and the fact that our lifestyle allows for plenty of sleep. Colorado has clean air, but it's dry and it's at altitude, so it's not like here where there's just TONS of oxygen and super clean air.

And because we have no debt and don't pay rent I don't have to work very hard. Hubby works hard, but has every other day off, so his schedule allows him to get plenty of sleep in a 48 hour period, if that makes sense. I almost never have to get up before I feel rested, and that's a luxury I've never had before.

On the other hand I fight depression here in a way that I've never fought it before. So I have a much greater interest in sleeping than ever before. Some days it's all I can do to go through the motions and come up with a couple of billable hours worth of work for a client.

I know that if I were back in Colorado I would pull a 40 hour work week and hit the gym every day afterward. And I wouldn't miss all that sleep I get here.

One thing that I notice here is that LOTS of people I know here smoke and drink way too much. Now I like to party too, but many people here party WAY more than can be called healthy. And I find that I've had to limit contact with friends who imbibe too frequently, just to keep from getting pulled off balance.

Back in Colorado people would give you dirty looks if you were seen in public with a cigarette. I only knew a couple of people who smoked and ALL of them were Brits or Mexicans. Virtually none of the Americans I knew smoked.

On balance I have to honestly say that for me Cancun is not healthier...but the air is cleaner than anywhere I've lived...and I do love that. To be fair where we lived in Colorado repeatedly gets voted the healthiest place in the US to live, it is exceptional.

[V]

In the first post on this thread, I mentioned that Mexico has a (relatively) simple and (relatively) inexpensive process of immigration for those who are financially self-sufficient, as evidenced by money in the bank, or by other means. My wife's first hand experience with this process is reproduced, here, from another thread, below.
___________________

My wife has completed the process of obtaining the non immigrant visa "Visitante Rentista". The process involved a total of five trips to immigration, if we count the visit to obtain the forms for the application. At each stage, the staff was helpful (within the limitations of their English and our Spanish) and not unpleasant, if not overly solicitous.

First, we presented the application (no appointment required), together with the required proof of financial self-sufficiency which, in our case, was money in the bank in the U.S., as neither of us was receiving a pension, at the time. We attached the last three month's bank statements, along with official translations of them into Spanish. (The required attachments to the application are detailed in the forms provided, and includes a receipt for payment to any local bank of the sum of 491 pesos.) We were told that the application appeared to be complete, with all the required items present, and to return in five days.

Five days later, we again went to immigration where we were told the application had been approved. We were then given a specific date and time, about five weeks later, to complete the next step. But, we had a problem with the date they gave us (we were planning to fly to the U.S.). When we told the staff about it they changed the appointment time to a nearer date so we could get the FM3 before our trip.

At our appointment, we presented proof that we'd paid the fees for the FM3, 1291 pesos, and presented the required black and white passport photos, front and side view. (The initial fee, 491 pesos, was charged to review the application; the subsequent fee is charged for the issuance of the FM3, once it's approved.) They reviewed with my wife the details that were to go on the FM3, filling it out in her presence; then, told us to come back in one week to collect the officially signed and sealed FM3, with photo inserted.

One week later, it was ready, as promised. We reviewed the new FM3, immediately, before leaving the office, and found it contained an error in the personal data. We called the error to the staff's attention, and they corrected it while we waited. This took about ten minutes.

We paid only the official fees, as posted in the office, and no employee hinted that extra money would be required, or helpful, at any stage of the process.

The total cost for obtaining the FM3, Visitante Rentista, including the required translations, copies and photos, was about 2,500 pesos.

[V]

I mentioned in my previous post that we experienced no corrupt influences in applying for, and obtaining, an FM3 based on financial self-sufficiency.

If you talk with Mexicans they will mention corruption as one of Mexico's major problems, right after lack of jobs/poverty. Interestingly, the World Bank says the two things are linked, with those countries having the largest amounts of poverty also, typically, having higher levels of corruption, as well. It's easy to understand why, with corrupt acts limiting the effectiveness of almost any law/governmental action, or mandate.

But, corruption has both a supply, and demand, side. The supply side is easy to identify, comprising those holding any governmental position which controls decision making in any area directly affecting the public. The demand side is where it gets a little more personal, and uncomfortable. As long as people wish to make their life just a little simpler, get things done more quickly or reliably, there will be the temptation to pay, or offer to pay, for a favorable act from a governmental official.

The supply side is the most easily dealt with: studies have shown that corruption retreats when there are high profile prosecutions occurring often enough to keep the matter in the public eye. The demand side is much harder to deal with, there being many more potential "consumers" of corrupt acts than "vendors".

Mexico, like many countries, has in place a great many programs to try to reduce the number of corrupt acts which may occur. In virtually every governmental office you will see signs posting the official fees which may be charged for all the governmental services provided there. Often, as in the case of immigration, those fees must be paid at a bank, rather than in the governmental offices. In addition, there will often be signs posted in Spanish and, in the case of Immigration Cancun, in English, warning that money is not to be given to any employee there; and, providing a number you can call if anything occurs which you consider improper.

Corruption is never completely eradicated, in any case, from any country. The most developed countries tend to have mainly what has been termed, "grand corruption", the most secretive and well hidden form, involving the largest sums of money, typically with the consumer of the corrupt act being a multinational or domestic corporation, or a very wealthy individual. Though you may never have the opportunity to settle a traffic ticket with a small "tip" to a police officer in the U.S., the U.S. is no stranger to this other form of corruption.

Getting back to our experience with immigration in Cancun, I mentioned that no employee, at any time, suggested or hinted at a need for any extra, unofficial payments directed to anybody. That wasn't the case, though, for a young American man who introduced himself to us in the office, on one of our visits. (Perhaps he will recognize himself as he reads this post, if he does.) My wife and I were sitting, waiting for our number to be called, when we were approached by this youth and straightforwardly told that, for 8,000 pesos total, he could guarantee my wife's FM3 would be issued, without any problems or delays. He went on to explain that he had a relative by marriage working in the immigration offices who could speed everything through.
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People like this young American, and those holding government positions, take advantage of stressful situations and the fear of adverse governmental action to induce people to pay/offer bribes; this, when coupled with a desire to escape the stress and fear, sometimes leads those who would never offer a bribe in their own country to respond in this way.

As Rivergirl has said, we can make little difference to solving the problems in Mexico; but, we can avoid contributing to its problems by not allowing ourselves to benefit from corrupt acts.

[TraceyUk]

We just had our FM3s renewed within 7 days of applying.No bribes, no lawyers, no hassles.................amazing.
Tracey

[V]

Nice, TraceyUK.

Now if someone just writes to tell us they've had good experiences with the Mexican Post....

[Life_N_Cancun]

My friend Ruben says he's had really good luck with the "new' MexPost... having shipped and received various sports stuff with them.

I guess changing the uniforms really worked. LOL :roll: