How To Save on Electric Bills

[T.J.]

I had a meeting today and one of the guys is a builder with a big house on the lagoon.

This is more applicable if you own your own place but could make sense if you rent and have a long term plan or a landlord like Steve's who may pony up some $$.

You can have multiple meters in residential properties and receive multiple bills. So if you are jumping out of the Tarifa 1C you could consider putting one or more extra meters for your air conditioning units.

He also mentioned that phone chargers when the phone is not attached, computers when off but plugged in and certain other things like this, have a slow drain of electric. So it is better to unplug your computer and phone chargers when not in use.

Maybe this will help a couple of you high rollers like Steve. jaja

[Gringation]

Here in Mexico, they also unplug appliances when not in use (microwaves, toasters, blenders, etc). I'm not sure how much it saves, but Mexican roommates have gotten mad at me for not unplugging the microwave haha

[Life_N_Cancun]

I'd think most appliance unplugging is to protect them from surges more than to save money on the power bill... true many things still consume power even when off but the amounts you're talking about (for properly working things) should be minuscule... the multiple meters approach is good IF you can get CFE to play along. I know people that have been waiting for YEARS to get 220 in their houses or second meters for apartments they rent... and I've known others who get same-day-service.. so its luck of the draw when dealing with them.

[gabesz]

Anything plugged into an outlet drains electricity even if not turned on. This is true everywhere. Best way to avoid draining electricity is to totally unplug everything from all the outlets in the wall when not there for extended periods of time (even a week). This will reduce your electric bill quite a bit. However practically its a pain to do and that is why many of us do not do it.

[V]

Everybody's heard about big electric bills here, and some have experienced them. Others, like a recent visitor to Cancun, who was thinking about living here, may have been scared away by a real estate agent who told them they could expect $500 USD/month electric bills. (This must be a popular number, as we were just told the same thing by another real estate agent!)

However, we've lived here for a year and a half and our biggest electric bill has been 1,300 pesos- for a two month period, through the hottest summer months. This is something like $55 USD/month, and we run a minisplit all but two hours a day at this time of year.

The reason our bill is so low is that the Mexican Government pays two-thirds of our bill for us: the $55 figure just represents the part they don't pay, plus tax on that sum. We get that subsidy because we are using modest amounts of electricity (about 500 KWH of electricity/month, right now), and they reward efforts to conserve. We would lose that subsidy if we ran an annual average above 850 KWH/month, but we don't- far from it, in fact. In the cooler months of the year our electric bills drop to around $15 USD/month- again, with a heavy subsidy from the Mexican Government.

So, electricity costs need not be a big factor to anyone thinking of living here: just a little effort to conserve can keep those bills very low.

Now, if we can just cut our restaurant tabs, we'll have it made! (However, my wife reminded me recently, that our latest meal out- which was very pleasant, by the way- cost just half what it would have been in the states.)

[Gringation]

I'm shocked to see such high bills for you guys (even yours seems a little high, V!)

Anywhere I've lived since I moved here 5 years ago, I've never had a bill for more than $400 pesos... usually it sits around $250 pesos. And that's considering I've had a few roommates who used a lot of AC! (never had it myself, though) and I always sleep with the TV on!

I've paid electric bills in the following areas:

by Avenida La Luna (a little AC, about $300)
in Porto Alegre (no AC, about $250
in Unidad Morelos (a little AC, about $150)
in Tikal (tons of AC, about $60)

Does CFE charge differently in certain neighborhoods? Even between my previous apartments/houses, you can see a pretty big difference.

[Life_N_Cancun]

Well without putting too fine of a point on it.. if you're using AC more than just an hour a day and your bill is ridiculously low.. something funny is going on. It's no secret that A LOT of people here steal power.. and it's entirely possible that you could move into a place where certain big ticket items (like AC's) have been wired to bypass the meter by a previous resident. In fact the place I currently live at received $0.00 peso bills from CFE for months until they came to check it out, replaced the meter and gave me an estimated bill to pay. I've also been in many houses that are kept like ice boxes and you just know that they are stealing power as they could never afford to pay the bills that would accompany such heavy AC usage.

Also, V.. I'm sure you're smart enough to know that the government isn't "paying" any of your bill.. they're just not charging you the highest rate.. the "costo de produccion" is crap... just do the math.. if it really costs them that much to make the power (over 3 pesos per KW) it would be more economical for everyone to run little gasoline generators! My cheapo generator can run for around 6-8 hours on a gallon and produce a little over 1.5KW per hour... which works out to around the same as what the CFE bills claim it costs them to produce the same amount in their much more efficient plants.. so I really doubt the figures.. and think it has more to do with making the "people" think the government is doing something to help them more than anything... (ie: propaganda) then again if they factor in all of the money being stolen at various levels in the CFE the costs might be accurate... and yes I realize the infrastructure costs are there too.. but I'm still doubtful... employees here make only a fraction of the salaries US counterparts make, the equipment is older, cheaper, and more sparse, and the rates are still higher than most parts of the US so.... I don't buy it.

[V]

Can´t speak about others´situations, Life, but we´ve lived in three different apartments here, each of which had similar equipment (12-17,000 BTU acs in each room), and our usage has been consistent from one place to the next, so I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of the readings we´ve had, especially when I look at the prior usage by others living in the same apartments, as shown on CFE´s bills, and it´s often been much higher.

Last summer, we had to move out of a place which had been rented, short term, for one of the months we had wanted it: when we returned, we saw that the occupants had used an average of 37 KWH per day to our 17-20 KWH per day, in summer, again suggesting the meters were working and reading the actual consumption. (The greatest difference we´ve seen so far has been in our current place, where the previous tenanats had consumed 3,200 KWH in the Oct-Nov period, last year.)

As for the point about the "subsidies", I agree with you that how it is conceived can be a matter of semantics, but the result is to reward those who conserve with much lower electric bills. It works out nicely for us, while still enjoying ac most of the day. I consider that the subsidy is actually coming from large consumers, who must pay a premium rate for their electricity.

[Life_N_Cancun]

The bills are indeed bewildering here sometimes.. I still think anyone using AC and getting $400 peso and lower bills has something going on unless there is some super low tariff class that I haven't heard of. If you're ideally place to avoid most of the solar heat and keep the AC temp high so its not running constantly, as you've said is your situation V, that certainly makes a difference and that's probably why you have managed to stay relatively low on usage. For reference my friend's house in Puerto Morelos, which has sat empty most of this past year with only 1 mini split AC running on low cool (to control the moisture) and florescent outside lights at night, normally has bills in excess of $3,000 and that's EMPTY.. when there are guests there using all 6 mini splits and the jacuzzi tubs you're looking at 4 to 6 times that amount easily depending how wasteful they are (and tourist tend to be VERY wasteful). Meanwhile a house next to me with 4 full time residents but no AC's has bills of less than $400 most of the year... so it seems pretty clear.. if you want AC you'll pay for it. (unless you're stealing)

[V]

...1 mini split AC running on low cool (to control the moisture)...

Yikes! What does he think will happen if he doesn´t take this very costly route to deal with moisture in the house? Surely there are some alternatives, such as whatever was done before a/c was invented, like putting a vent in the attic or something.

Puerto Morelos is probably in tariff class 1-B, in which you get cast into the fires of DAC when your annual monthly average exceeds the rather low figure of 400 KWH, just as we would, if we ran one minisplit 24 hours per day (we are currently exceeding that modest allowance, for example, but we're not in tariff class 1-B, in Cancun, and our allowance is 850 KWH/month).

Yeah for Cancun, huh?!

[Life_N_Cancun]

Originally Posted by V

Yikes! What does he think will happen if he doesn´t take this very costly route to deal with moisture in the house? Surely there are some alternatives, such as whatever was done before a/c was invented, like putting a vent in the attic or something.

Puerto Morelos is probably in tariff class 1-B

I've yet to see an attic in Cancun, PM, or, Playa.. and I think PM is the same tariff as Cancun since its part of the same municipality, but I'm not sure. The moisture problem here is that it literally seems to come UP from the ground into the concrete and then you have paint and plaster "jumping" off of your walls and of' course the accompanying mold and smells from the moisture in the walls... If you've ever lived on a first floor here you'll probably know what I'm talking about. After years of fighting it with sealants and everything else you can think of he's found that leaving the AC on greatly reduces the problem... and when I say low I mean he has the temp set at 80ish and low speed fan.. so its not as if its constantly running the compressor. I've suggested he might get a few dehumidifiers, but those would require someone to empty the collected water everyday which isn't really practical.

[V]

I would be comfortable with anything up to about twice what I'm paying for electricity in the summer ($50/month); above that, and I'd start looking for ways to cut it back, just because I like being frugal, generally.

People have different levels of pain they will accept before they start paying attention, and for most with big electric bills I suspect it's just not really a matter of concern for them.

Having been tipped off by various websites that electric costs were an issue here, when I arrived I began reading my meter, daily, just to see what was up. We were then using 3.5 KWH/day, because it was still relatively cool and we weren't using the ac at all. I watched the consumption climb, as the warmer weather set in, to 17-20 KWH/day and saw that there wasn't much cause for concern.

I've mostly just amused myself by learning more about this subject- electricity costs in Mexico- and find that most of the locals know less than many of us on this website do about the subject: the locals whinge about the costs, even when their bills are actually rather low- like mine. So, it's a bit of a national past time, it seems.

I consider that it makes sense for the Mexican Government to both encourage conservation, and to assist the poor, by rewarding small consumers with greatly reduced rates: that large consumers are picking up the tab doesn't offend me in the least.
____________________

Some of you in apt management, or who may be active in your condo association, can probably tell me whether the costs of electricity- for lighting, area cooling, and running the pumps on the swimming pool- end up making a big contribution to the condo fees here. There is also a possibility that high energy costs for business, such as restaurants, make a large contribution to the fact that things are not really as cheap here as the low wages would suggest they should be, but I don't know how the commercial rates stack up against those of other countries.

[Life_N_Cancun]

Here is a break down of US electric prices....

The highest rate I saw was for Hawaii and its about what the DAC rate is here... the average cost per KWH in the US in general is just under 12 cents. Commercial power in the States is actually cheaper than residential according to this information.

Some people seem to be under the illusion the power is cheap in Mexico... its not.. just try using the same KWH that you used "back home" and see what your bill is. You would never be able to heat and cool a 3000 square foot house in Mexico without having a heartattack.

Edit: According to this site the "average" home in the US used 920 KWH per month in 2008.. so if that was your usage here you'd be in the DAC class so figure ~$3.2 pesos x1840KWH per cycle.. your bill would be $5,888 pesos or (with today's exchange) about $476/2 = $238usd per month... (and honestly the 920KWH a month figure seems low to me but that's what the site says) That same usage "on average" (12 cent per KWH) in the US would only be about $110usd per month!

See corrected figure two posts below with tax...

[V]

Those figures sound about right to me, Life. It would be interesting if it were possible to look at average consumption in those places in the states that are as hot, on average, as Cancun. (Not sure there are any, but south Texas and south Florida might come close.)

The unsubsidized electric rates per KWH are the highest, here, that I've ever seen- close to 20 cents, U.S. The highest I've paid anywhere else, including in the U.S., has been 10 cents. But even in the U.S. people quickly moved away from the fad of "all electric" houses.

In Vietnam we were averaging 1,000 KWH of consumption per month, annually, in a much bigger apartment: the same in China, which was cooler, but we had electric heat! In both places we were paying 10 cents per KWH. Here, we use much less, but we chose our apts here partly with electric usage in mind, looking for smaller places, somewhat sheltered from the sun, knowing both those factors would figure significantly in consumption.

[Life_N_Cancun]

Originally Posted by V

The unsubsidized electric rates per KWH are the highest, here, that I've ever seen- close to 20 cents,

According to the CFE site its right at $3 pesos ($3.025) this time of year.. so its a tiny bit less than my figures... meaning its $225.34 a month for the US average of 920KWH a month... before the fee's and taxes (which I forgot before) so you can add 11% IVA and 5% DAP which brings the corrected total to:
$261.39usd A MONTH! & as you said V, that's a national US average not specific to hotter areas, which I'm sure have higher averages most of the year.
Bottom line... it ain't cheap in Mexico....

[Zena]

Just to give you a general idea, I live in the Tampa, Florida area in an all electric home, approx. 2,000 sq.ft, one story, high ceilings. From the Tampa weather blog, here's an excerpt of the type of weather we experienced last month (heat index running an average of 105 F daily).

"The mean temperature in Tampa was 84.3 only 0.6 degrees below the all-time high of 84.9 set back in 1932. There were 22 days in July where the max reached or exceeded 90 and 3 days where it reached 96 so three times July 2010 reached within 2 degrees of the all-time high temperature of 98 recorded back in 1942. There were 22 days with max temperatures at or exceeding 90 while the coolest it got in Tampa in July was 73 degrees recorded on 3 mornings."

My electric bill for July for 1588 kWh was $184.74, an average of 53 kWh per day. This is running whole house air conditioning 24/7 set at 78 F.

[Life_N_Cancun]

Originally Posted by Zena

My electric bill for July for 1588 kWh was $184.74, an average of 53 kWh per day. This is running whole house air conditioning 24/7 set at 78 F.

That usage would cost you $5572.29 pesos in Cancun using the above prices... about $451.19usd!

I'd bet too that your home is far better insulated and more energy efficient than the typical place here is...

[matkirk]

That's scandalous!

Lets face it though, it's not just electricity is it. It's cars, internet (50mb in England for the same price as 1.5mb here - yes 50mb!!), sky tv, electrical goods, healthcare, you have to buy drinking water! etc. etc. the list goes on.

However the sun is shining, the beaches are nice, and the beer is cheap.

[Life_N_Cancun]

Really makes your head spin when you think about it.. how can people survive here making so much less than they do in the US or UK when prices for most everyday items are considerably higher?... meanwhile the richest man in the world, Carlos Slim, gets richer on the backs of those very people...

[V]

Aren´t we missing a point by focusing on how outrageously priced electricity is? I thought we´re all supposed to be conserving- thinking about what we could do, individually, to reduce our carbon footprint. Living in enormous houses, and cooling every square foot of it in a hot climate is not doing that: living in a small apt and cooling a single room is- though I´m still opting for airconditioning, so I´m not doing all I could, obviously.

Without getting ridiculous, it is important that we begin to scale back on the demands we are making on the environment: raising the price of energy is a well established means of getting people to use less of it (it worked for me!).
______________________

On the subject of the high cost of things, generally, here, that must be a combination of factors: we could accuse the high taxes, but they are no higher than those in most developed countries, and people here are more adept at avoiding them: we can´t blame high wages, obviously. It could be energy costs, to a degree, and what seem to me to be high rents on business premises; but, I suspect as big a culprit is a culture which does not value efficiency, and this raises the cost of every good and service produced.

[matkirk]

I personally think the point of this is how outrageous electricity is. I don't want to get ripped off so I use less. I am a responsible adult and will use less electricity, not because of the price but because it's the right thing to do.

We'll charge you loads and make big profits even if you use less of it.

I prefer - we'll charge you a fair price and you use less of it, that way big business and the individual are both making a contribution.

Your way V big business still wins and we live in the dark.

I want to live comfortably and pay a fair price at the moment Mexico has unfair prices and very rich people laughing all the way to the bank.

[V]

I'll admit I don't know what the profitability of CFE may be, or whether it's higher than justified. Life seems to have suggested that Slim has an interest, but I thought he was the telephone guy.

If CFE is a privately owned company, I'm still not moved: massive profits amassed by energy related industries are commonplace. I would prefer that there be a concept of "reasonable" profit, but few seem to subscribe to the notion.

When I look at corporations, and corporate life around the world, what I see is big corporations providing a life that would be fit for a Czar for many of their top executives: who pays for it? We do....

Redefining what constitutes the "good life" would be a starting point of breaking the grip of these avaricious entities.
__________________

When I was a young man, many intellectuals were warning about the rising power and influence of corporations in national life. While corporations have continued to increase their power and influence through the decades, they have attempted to silence the voice of the thoughtful members of society by discrediting the product of science, and other intellectual endeavors, as suited their goal of profitability. The goal was to change us into mindless consuming units which, it seems to me, they have done rather successfully.

There are other voices on the planet, however. In the East, there is the voice of the King of Bhutan, who has popularized the concept of "gross national happiness". This is an effort to awaken people to the idea that mindless production of more and more consumer goods, and mindless exploitation of energy resources, and using the planet as a sewer for our industrial waste, would ultimately have a negative impact on the quality of life human beings enjoyed, if carried far enough.

It is an appealing concept, and it is still being fleshed out. It may yet catch on.

[Life_N_Cancun]

Originally Posted by V

Life seems to have suggested that Slim has an interest, but I thought he was the telephone guy.

I wasn't suggesting that per say.. Slim does have his hands in, or a monopoly on, almost everything in Mexico either directly or via proxies, and that has stifled competition and thus ensured prices are artificially high throughout the whole spectrum of Mexican life... I know he was trying to get Pemex to privatize presumably so he could buy it up and control that too. CFE is supposed to be a government entity, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't control lucrative contracts and other related businesses that contribute to the costs. Generally speaking I think Mexico and Mexicans would have been better off had Slim not been so successful...

[V]

Generally speaking I think Mexico and Mexicans would have been better off had Slim not been so successful...

Every society has those who for reasons of cleverness and avariciousness manage to garner significantly more to themselves and their families than others do. The only force capable of holding this dynamic in check, and preventing the impoverishment of a whole country to the benefit of a few, is the government. People who believe this are often labeled socialist, and so it is. Weak or corrupted governments are unable to hold this dynamic in check. Mexico is an example: the U.S. is becoming an example, as its government slides further under the influence of its big corporations.

[V]

As it turns out, the CFE is an electric monopoly that is wholly owned by the Mexican Government, making it appropriate to speak of "government subsidies" of charges for electricity for small consumers, and making the profit issue largely irrelevant, though we could still complain that there is an excessive tax on consumption in the form of excessive rates. From their website-

"The Federal Electricity Commission (CFE) is a company created and owned by the Mexican government. It generates, distributes and markets electric power for almost 33.8 million customers. This figure represents almost 100 million people. The CFE incorporates more than a million new customers every year."

No one need "sit in the dark" in Mexico, Matt. The subsidies make very modest consumption of electricity almost free. Use 200 KWH of electricity per month, in the summer, and your bill would be 161 pesos per month, including tax. [Two months usage and fees, divided by two, using 300 KWH@0.617; 100 KWH@0.926, and tax of 16%, tariff 1-C, to calculate the cost for the two months] And, you'll recall that our consumption, running a refrigerator, a laptop a few hours/day, a fan, lights, and occasional use of a toaster, microwave, hairdryer, and TV, resulted in a 3.5 KWH/day rate of consumption: add a few hours of a/c and you're at the 200 KWH/month level that I used in this example. If you wanted to offer an illustration that would allow the use of the a/c most of every day, you could allow consumption of up to 15 KWH/day, and still just be paying 6 US cents per KWH, plus tax, under the current scheme of subsidies.
__________________

Our online research on Mexico, before we moved here, alerted us to electric rates as an issue. At the time, we were considering living in Merida where, with its hotter weather, it would have been an even bigger issue. I told my wife that, if we continued to use as much electricity as we were using in Vietnam, our electric bills could hit $225 USD/month (which would have been an all time high, for us). We started thinking about strategies for coping with the heat and economizing on electricity, at the same time. Thinking we'd end up in a colonial home in Merida, we supposed we could chose a smaller room on the interior of the house to use a work/rest area during the day, and cool only that room. Although we didn't end up in Merida, we've continued to apply that approach here in choosing where to live, and how to cool our home. It obviously worked. We neither sit in the dark, nor suffer from the heat (except when we have to go out midday!). We keep one 35 sq meter area cool all day, and cool other rooms only when we are using them.
__________________

[T.J.]

If you were to look at V's passport, you will see that his middle name is FRUGAL.

My bill in the US and I am rarely there, is about $125-$140 per month. This is mostly for the pool and spa pumps. I keep the a/c set at about 86 degrees F for the moisture thing and my housekeeper turns it down when she is there and the day before I return. I should fill the damn pool with dirt and top it off with concrete.

I missed the top of the market when I should have turned the place into cash. Now is not quite the time in FL to be selling.

[Gringation]

TJ - You have a house in FL with a pool and spa that you don't even use?? You should rent it!

[V]

Perhaps you could turn the pool into an exotic fish farm, T.J., raising high dollar tropical fish!

What ever happened to the concept of wind-driven, attic fans? Couldn't one or more of these be placed roof to ceiling, with an attractive duct cover visible, in several rooms of the house, drawing air out of the house and freshening the interior? (Can't say whether that would eliminate whatever problems you may be trying to prevent by running the a/c, but what the heck did people do before a/c was invented?)
___________________

[T.J.]

There really are no attics here that I have seen.

That would make it hard to have an attic fan, but practically, it would be a good idea. Attics would also make a nice place for the iguanas to get out of the sun.

[Susan in Cancun]

I wish I could find one of those houses with super-cheap electricity! My first apartment in Cancun had a faulty electric water heater (only I didn't know what was causing the problem for 3 years) and my power bills were HORRIBLE! One time (the last bill before the water heater died), the bill was over $7,000 pesos. Yes, over seven THOUSAND. After the water heater was replaced the bills still weren't cheap, by any means. I guess the average bill was $3,000 in Summer months (for 2 months), and around 800-1000 in Winter months.

In my current apartment, my landlord pays all power EXCEPT for my air-conditioner, which is on a separate 220v meter. My a/c was broken for 6 or 7 months and I loved those power bills! Only around $35 pesos for two months, since I only pay for a/c usage. Then I got a new a/c and the bills are back to normal. The last was around $1,700 pesos....with moderate use of the a/c. I'm expecting the next bill to be over $3,000 pesos because, since it's been much hotter lately, I'm using the a/c much more than I did during the last billing period. So, in my experience, power in very expensive here and I dread the arrival of the bill.

In Denver, the same size apartment, with central heat & a/c would probably cost around $80-150 USD, each month. And, I would have it like an oven in Winter, and like a freezer in Summer. ....but rent is MUCH higher in Denver, so I guess it all balances out.