Dragon Mart

[V]

With a tip of the hat to T.J., and Pocodinero, I thought this deserved its own thread.

Here's an article giving the "Chamber of Commerce" point of view-

Dragon Mart will invest $150 million dollars in Cancun :: MBW / Mexican Business Web ::

And, another, albeit in Spanish, which takes a dimmer view-

Caribe Inversión: PARA LOS CHINOS, TODO EL APOYO; A LOS PORTOMORELENSES SOLO PROMESAS

[rawkus]

Its sure as hell isnt pretty, but then again: Neither are the new developments that has replaced the jungle, mangrove and such.

I think this will be interesting, in many ways:

Lower prices thanks to Chines goods? - Im sure the Mexican businesses are going to cry out loud, right? A free economy means that each and everyone can make their choice whether to buy Chinese or "Mexican".

I for one welcome the competition, as Cancun has been raising its prices like mad.

Is the proposed building/complex pretty? Oh h*ll no.

China is steamrolling across the globe, and I was a bit surprised that Cancun would be only the second foreign-based location for a Dragon Mart.(Dubai being the first if Im not completely wrong..)

From what I heard this morning, speaking to a friend, the Mexican Government are appearing fairly hesitant about the Chines coming, but in the end: Can they resist the cash?

I wish they would build it on one of many vacant "lots", that are all dusty and dirty, rather than clearing even more vegetation...

[CancunNurse]

I am in Dubai now and we saw the Dragon Center. According to a friend, lots of cheap, low quality products....just what we need in Cancun! Yes it will provide competition but who goes from bad to worse?

[T.J.]

I think the worst things about this are (a) It will change the face of Puerto Morelos forever and (2) It will not create jobs for local people. Probably speaking Chinese is not a big priority in the Mexican school system.

[rawkus]

CancunNurse: Oh, I know heaps of people here who wouldnt mind lower quality, as long as the prices are low... The good thing is that its simply up to everyone in the end, right? Buy or not to buy. Myself, I still prefer to pay a bit more, knowing what I get is slightly "better".


T.J: The first time I ever went to Puerto Morelos, I fell in love... This was some 4 years ago. Went there this Saturday, and with all the new developments, hotels etc, it sure has changed, for the worse. This is my own, personal view, as I would prefer to keep Puerto Morelos "small, nice and pretty".

No doubt this new mart will speed up that change...(making it worse)

Regarding Chinese: Dont think it would come down to speaking Chinese in the schools. Im sure people were hesitant when Wal Mart etc. rolled into Mexico.

Im all for the competition, but like I wrote, would have preferred the mart on one of the thousand "waste land lots" thats just sitting here, doing nothing but making the surroundings uglier.

[V]

Rawkus, I think there is a serious danger the character of the village of Puerto Morelos will change as a result of the establishment of Dragon Mart. Four thousand habitations devoted to Chinese employees are being built: with three persons per habitation (mom, pop and one child) this is already 12,000 Chinese living in the area, and their kids going to school, there. Puerto Morelos has a population estimated at around 2,500 people, so the impact will be enormous. Some businesses catering to the Chinese, and mainly owned by Chinese will be established, such as private schools, and restaurants of course.

Mexicans are among the most polite people I know; mainland Chinese on the otherhand.... Mainland Chinese are also among the noisiest people in public Ive encountered (aside from Americans!)

Some expect that goods will be brought in through the Port of Morelos. If that is so, the port operations will have to be greatly expanded, as will roads, to accommodate the heavy truck traffic that would be generated. (These impacts will not occur, if goods are brought to other ports, such as Mazanilla, which I understand is the main port of entry for Chinese imports, now.)

The Chinese are largely motivated by shrinking margins on their exports: wages in China have increased dramatically in the last seven years, raising the cost of producing those exports. They hope to improve their margins by selling direct, and taking advantage of tax incentives that were offered them.

My students feel the governor of Qroo did not negotiate a very good deal, in this case. They felt he could have asked for a minimum percentage of the labor force at Dragon Mart to be Mexican Nationals, for example, and not agreed, up front, to allow such a large number of Chinese to live here, and work in the facility.

Many people expect an overall positive economic impact, but if you cut out the middleman, and lower tariffs on Chinese imports, Mexican retail businesses and manufacturers may suffer.

On the otherhand, there are a number of scenarios you can imagine that would increase tourism to the area, as a consequence; such as, Latin American businessmen coming here to discuss terms for large orders or ongoing orders, taking advantage of the opportunity to have a short holiday in Cancun and bringing their families with them. Further, it´s hard not to imagine those Chinese living here suggesting a visit to their friends and families, back home. So, like so many things, it´s a mixed bag, but I can´t say I´m that fond of the idea.

[rawkus]

V: Some good points. Personally, Im not going to speculate about "colonization"(in lack of a better term, hehe).


My only "pro" for this is the competition, and I strongly believe in freedom of competition. If the Chinese will sell goods to lower costs, well, let them.

Cancun businesses have been raising prices through the roof - this might shake things up, at least a bit.


I wont but the Chinese stuff if its "crap", but if I can find stuff that is of similar quality, but cheaper at Dragon Mart, well, then Im there. (Depending on if the products meet my personal standards.)


If one looks at it through the eyes of a family, with, lets say 1 working adult(1 at home) and 3 kids: If this family can save "10-25%" on something, then why not?

A LOT of local businesses seem to believe that they should have the right to have a monopoly, and push prices to a ridiculous level.


A lot of people simply dont care where and how their goods were manufactured, ans will continue to buy it if its cheap. Their own choice.

I have my brands that I like/prefer, and I keep buying them, even if its sometimes 80% more expensive.


Like I said(and here I think we agree): P M is changing fast. In 4 years it has gone from what I considered a small and very nice place, to what seems to be a new "hotel zone"(not ready, but getting there...)

I would have LOVED to see it before I came here - Im sure it was even nicer then.

I do feel bad for the area, as it will see a huge change over a shorter period of time. I would have loved to have a smaller and quieter place, fairly close to Cancun, to be able to escape this city of ours and get some sense of tranquility. Have a feeling this will change, fast.

And again, I would have preferred if they built it in one of the dusty old pieces of land that there seem to be a whole bunch of...


If the people feel the need to stop this, they should go after the guy/guys who made this possible, not the Chinese.


Cancun and the entire Riviera Maya is changing, and personally I would have hoped that they would see the benefit of having jungle and such, rather than aiming for a "new Miami", where everything is concrete, steel and glass.

This is one of the reasons I wont stay in Cancun "forever".

[T.J.]

Rawkus,

Great point on the free market/competition thing. Most Americans try to adhere to the Buy American philosophy. I try but am not married to it, being a believer that while unions are good in so many ways, they are bad for inflation. This in itself causes unemployment to be unncessarily high as it outsources tons of jobs other countries, including Mexico. Speaking in dollars, if I can buy American for $2.00 or Chinese for $1.75, I am paying for the US goods. Now, $200 vs $175 is a different matter.

I still am not buying into Dragon World (Florida joke where everything is ____ World) as being good for Mexico. From what I have heard and read, it anything but a good deal for the area that was negotiated. The Chinese folks did quite well for themselves. Probably better than what we have read.

[Cancunscorpio]

Here goes another nice and pleasant area..... totally wasted by the concrete blocks called **the dragon mart**. Who in hell needs a Dragon Mart in Puerto Morelos?? that place in itself is a diamond, very nice and cozy town with a very friendly people, amazing landscape and an amazing reef not far from the shore..... I love going to Puerto Morelos every time I'm in Cancun, sitting on the beach, swimming to the reef and enjoying the nature... since the reef is not that close to the shore as in Akumal, I always feel myself being surrounded by the reef and its creatures while free diving....
Hope that this piece of paradise on Earth will not be destroyed by the Dragon Mart and all those chinese....

[V]

No connection, but Puerto Morelos became a municipality of its own, yersterday, separating from Benito Juarez Municipality. Our mayor, and the governor of Qroo were in attendance at a ceremony recognizing the reorganization.

Good luck to them! Perhaps they´ll find a way to manage development so as to preserve what´s left of the charm of the village center.

[GONZO]

Originally Posted by V

Good luck to them! Perhaps they´ll find a way to manage development so as to preserve what´s left of the charm of the village center.

Fat chance with that monstrosity!

[T.J.]

'bout time you weighed in Gonzo.

So, how do you really feel?

[GONZO]

It just amazes me as to what a town will do just for tourist dollars. Sad isnt it, especially for the wildlife. Maybe they should do birding tours in the jungles around the area. And leave the inland habitat be.

You know I am a birder and really love seeing the hummingbirds I get here in Minnesota and the Ruby Throated migrates down to Texas and then those little buggers beef up on the coast of TX and fly over 500 miles across the Gulf to the tip of Q Roo. Every year I see less and less of them and I know why, degredation of habitat. I rest my case.

[GONZO]

On another note about habitat protection. Here in Red Wing where I live, is right on the Mississippi River and some yaahoo wanted to build a big CONDO plex with the main floor being retail space, big ugly f'in thing right on the River bank. And they were getting close to making a deal when the townsfolk heard about it, we were able to make a big enough stink to where the City leaders ended up backing down and it was eventually donated to a land trust that will protect it FOREVER! So now they will never be any building on that stretch of the Mississippi.

So things can get done if enough stand up against it. Well at least here in my town.

[CancunNurse]

After seeing the Dragon Mart in Dubai, I can't imagine what it would be like in Puerto Morelos. It was a big,barn-like structure with little booth areas (as in Market 28). I can't imagine anything worth while coming out of there. There is a reason why Mexico wouldn't allow Chinese imports and now this! For those that voiced their opinions and said go for the cheaper things, cheaper things are made with cheaper paint (toxic or not, they don't care. Remember, they were in trouble for poisoning their OWN PEOPLE!), cheaper glues, cheaper woods, etc. I wouldn't give my dogs something made in China. But if cheap is more important than wise, go for it!

[rawkus]

GONZO: The last thing this region needs is yet another environmental killer. Im a huge fan of nature and wildlife(one of the main reasons I came here to begin with), and it would be ret*rded(in lack of a better word) to clear even more oxygen producing, poison filtering vegetation.

IF this thing is really needed, build it one of the dusty, ugly grounds that there are tons of already.


CancunNurse: Personally, I have no issue with paying a bit more if I know the product is even a bit easier on mother earth.

But this doesnt count for everyone. My point is that some people around here, dont care at all where a product comes from, how it was made etc, as long as its cheaper.

I know plenty of families(with up to 4-6 kids) that live on a total of $US500/month. If they can get "two cans of tuna", for the same price of one, regular, "Mexican" can, then they will go for it.

Considering how many of Mexicos own products(produced and imported) are created in all but environmentally friendly ways, Im sure a lot of people simply couldnt care less, unfortunately, I should add.

I think locals should put pressure on their own government to lower prices, rather than "bashing" the Chinese. After all, someone invited them, sat down with them and agreed with them...

In the end, its all in the hands of us - the consumers. If we dont buy, they wont last, but if we do, well, then people made their choice.

For many of us, wise is always ahead of cheaper, but for some, thats just not an option.

[Alma Libre]

I think we're jumping the gun here. According to this article on CNN, they have not even chose a site for the place yet, and I would think it would be unlikely to be in Puerto Morelos town limits.

Dragon Mart-Cancún en el aire - Manufactura - CNNExpansion.com

[chirojoseph]

hers a bit more news in the exact same vein...

China Wants To Construct A 50 Square Mile Self-Sustaining City South Of Boise, Idaho


dont be suprised people...CHINA is first world and running a surplus...you can bash the communist system all you want but they havent been spending outside their means for the past 20 years as USA has.

I think its a terrible thing for PM...but so is the SID hotel complex and all the CRAP theyve built to the north iin front of my beloved Punta Caracol wave spot too....but at least its not built on drug money and complete and utter corruption like those hotels are.

I mean, we have to accept that the people who make the best, most industrious business and are shrewd are going to "win" in the end. China is continuing to show that its been carefully planning this global expansion for a VERY long time. The mexis (god love em) usually pat themselves on the back when they plan 3 years in the future (and basically theyre planning how to rob from the NEXT administration only.....remember Im talking politicians here and of course THEY are the ones who will make or break this deal with China) and the States, well, we USED to listen to the smart folk who thought years in advance but NOW the only people in USA thinking far in advance are the bankers and neocons and what theyve been planning is quite a bit more dastardly than a monster chinese Market 28.

Unfortunately ive come to think of my 9 years in PM as a wonderful, beautiful wave. I was LUCKY as hell to have been there to surf it but have now pretty much accepted that the wave has passed leaving only rocky shores and dead coral. Almost time to go looking for a new wave.

Enjoy it while you can, once the SID golf course construction goes into full swing the Dragon mart will be least of our worries.

good winds!
dr joe

[Steve]

hehe Dr Joe, very smart post

[pocodinero]

What is "SID?"

[rawkus]

poco: Im assuming he meant "El Cid"?

They also cut off the water access(they left only a few drain sized tunnels for the water to come and go...) to the mangroves, killing it almost completely.

I can understand the anger with Dragon Mart, but many fail to see the fact that most hotels and local businesses arent any better.

I know a Dutch woman who came here for 9 months to work with the water department(Aquakan?) in an exchange-type program.

The report was grim, to say the least. The water capacity was(2009) some 36 % UNDER what Cancun as a city required... Has anything been done to fix this? Nope. But, in two years, the city has expanded yet the water capacity remains quite far behind...

Ill stop before I go off-track even more, jaja

[Cancunscorpio]

Right on, Rawkus. Killing the mangroves and wild forests is one of Mexico's major problems.
I have nothing against the development of all kinds of supermarkets in Cancun, considerng that there is NO Chedraui, Walmart or Soriana in the HotelZone and people living there have to go far just to get to the store and get some groceries.

But definitely don't want any construction in places like Puerto Morelos or Akumal, where the nature and its beauty is at its best!!!! I can envision myself living in Akumal, surrounded by nature, water, palm trees and sea turtles, but will never feel comfortable in the concrete jungle of a HUUUGE supermarket, surrounded by hordes of people looking for a bargain.....

[rawkus]

Scorpio: Agreed - keep places like PM, Akumal and such, fairly small and untouched(oh well...).

I have a feeling Dragon Mart would do better in Cancun anyways, and there is certainly nod need to kill off even more jungle

Im sad that the Puerto Morelos I first visited a few years ago, almost is a thing of the past... Would be nice to still have a small hideaway from Cancun.

But, I guess money talk, right?

[V]

...dont be suprised people...CHINA is first world and running a surplus...you can bash the communist system all you want but they havent been spending outside their means for the past 20 years as USA has.

You don't have to look any further than China to see that how you manage an economic system is more important than what kind of system it is.

China has a thoughtful, collective leadership that mainly consists of people with engineering backgrounds. As such, it's relatively easy for them to take a pragmatic approach to running the economy, which they've done, while bad management has driven the U.S. to the precipice.

[perceived beauty]

It is interesting to read the opinions about whether Dragon Mart will or will not be built and where, if any place it will be located. My suggestion is to walk away from your computer, drive south on Autopista 307 and watch the trucks moving the earth. Guys and Gals, construction started several weeks ago.

[MN2PM]

do you know where exactly the building is/will be

[V]

Click on this link, which appeared in the OP. I believe it contains a map.

Caribe Inversión: PARA LOS CHINOS, TODO EL APOYO; A LOS PORTOMORELENSES SOLO PROMESAS

[V]

Anybody seen the site, recently, to see what, if anything, has started to be built? It's 9 KM south of the airport, and 15 KM south of downtown Cancun; 11 KM from the port at Puerto Morelos, on the highway, so you pass it going to and from Puerto Morelos, or Playa.

I've heard construction has started, but I haven't seen it myself, to verify it.

Make a picture and post it, if you happen to get by there.

(See the website in the previous post, "Ubicacion", if you're not sure where we're talking about.)

[T.J.]

I had a great meal in their food court early last week.

[V]

T.J., what was there to make it clear that it was part of the Dragon Mart, 150,000,000 USD project, to be developed by ChinaMex Corp?