Monterrey Casino - Interesting Video

[T.J.]

Above the Tearline: Reconstructing the Monterrey Arson Attack from Surveillance Footage | STRATFOR

[TraceyUk]

This makes me so mad !We have friends that lost loved ones in this senseless attack. Why dont these people have morals, emotions ?

[V]

When it gets to the level of violence certain cities of Mexico- especially Monterey and Ciudad Juarez- have seen in the last three years or so, it gets to be "survival of civilization" time.

Elements of the Mexican Federal Government, under the determined leadership of President Calderon, are laboring mightily, and courageously, to defeat groups of criminals whose only qualification is ruthlessness.

[rawkus]

Originally Posted by V

under the determined leadership of President Calderon, are laboring mightily, and courageously, to defeat groups of criminals whose only qualification is ruthlessness.

...and also protects his/their own interests in form of rivals to the Zetas etc.

Calderon´s army are doing similar crap as many of the cartels in cities that they control.

Everyone whom benefits, are involved in one way or another. Sad really.

[V]

...and also protects his/their own interests in form of rivals to the Zetas etc.

What's your evidence, Rawkus? My evidence is the national news from Mexico.

On what evidence do you find there to be a hidden agenda on the part of President Calderon, in the stance he is taking, such that his real agenda, as you suggested, is to boost the prospects of one cartel over another, using the combined forces of the Army, Navy, and Federal Police?

[rawkus]

My "evidence" are the countless eyewitness reports about the army killing people and looting communities.

I remember the case of 2 Mexican reporters/journalists, not long ago:

One of them got executed on the street, in broad daylight, by the army, after having reported on the activities of the Mexican Army. Dont know what its called in English/Spanish, but the general lined up his men, told the reporter to "run" - that was the mans only "chance". He got shot in the back.

The other reporter managed to flee with his son to the US border crossing, where he applied for asylum.

He was to be deported, but an outcry amongst several American writers and similar figures, helped in the process of getting him and his son permission to remain in the US, as his life was in immediate danger upon his proposed return to Mexico and into the arms of the very same army that already massacred his co-worker and friend.

He was on a BBC documentary last year and his accounts on what had happened, really made me drop my jaw.

Many of the people in those cities, say that "the army does as much bad stuff as the cartels, except they wear proper uniforms and are never even investigated".

Its also no secret that when a new president takes charge, efforts swing towards hitting certain cartels harder than others.

It happened with Fox and it certainly happened when Calderon took over.

Google about the Mexican Army killing civilians, and about the reporter who fled. I dont remember the surviving reporters name, but I do remember that he had a US senate hearing about it all.

[rawkus]

V: I dont know if Id say that he "wants" a certain cartel to "win", but like ANY other government, deals are being and have been made. Its unfortunate, but quite natural/logical...

[V]

Google about the Mexican Army killing civilians, and about the reporter who fled.

Evidence of misconduct, even criminal misconduct, by the Mexican Army is a far cry from the accusation you made against the President.

Why persist in a libelous claim for which you have no evidence?

President Calderon has worked tirelessly on all fronts to try to improve the country and the way it's governed: he gets massive criticism heaped on his head for the attempt, especially for his efforts to blunt the power and influence of the drug cartels on the life of the country.

[rawkus]

V: These are things Ive both read and seen on Mexican news. Its quite "normal" to agree(to some extent) to certain deals with opponents of the, in most cases, strongest cartels. Calderon increases his army in areas that arent even the worst hit, and the same troops have priorities, according to what Ive both read and seen/heard on the national news.

From what I understand, Zetas are the main threat to the Governments efforts, whilst less known/smaller fractions are not dealt with much at all, especially those who are rivals of the biggest cartels.

A majority of both the police force and army are supposedly infiltrated by the biggest cartels(mainly Z´s) - Calderon has just now started pushing some efforts when it comes to investigating what you call misconduct and what others call murder, torture, kidnappings etc.

Many have spoken out against the fact that criminal activities conducted by the army/police are handled by military courts(dont know the proper term) and have and are still demanding that civilian courts take over those cases - Calderon is just now starting to consider civilian courts to deal with these events, but has so far(during the last 5 years...), refused that ALL court-cases involving military and/or police should be dealt with by an "unbiased"(Mexicans standards of unbiased that is) court.

"President Calderon has worked tirelessly on all fronts" - Clearly he hasn't, considering the refusal to investigate the alleged thousands of civilian deaths(including an American citizen not too long ago, whom was sprayed with bullets, had a gun planted on him etc.) that the military is believed to be responsible for. They have flat out looted entire communities, and get away with it. To me, thats no better than what the cartels are doing - I actually consider it to be way worse, as I expect the Presidents own troops to have at least an ounce of moral decency, something that I do NOT expect from the cartels...

Ill try to find the documentary that showed the alleged ties between the current Government and some of the Zetas(amongst others) rivals. I know I downloaded it last year, so I should have it on the old laptop.

Both powerful and interesting stuff.

Im sure Google could show some of it as well.

Regarding Calderon´s army: There are countless, easily found, news sources that covers those events, starting from his 2nd day in office. Murders, kidnappings, torture, money laundering etc. Its all there, just like 99% of any previous president of this country.

[T.J.]

I am not taking sides as there are merits to both V's and Rawkus' comments/arguments.

I have read that some suggest an accord of sorts between Gov't and the Cartel or Cartels, but I am not sure which, where they sort of try to mutually coexist with efforts to squash any new guys.

[davisod]

Some day, a genius will figure out how the country"s coffers - whether USA, Mexico, or Canada's - can be overflowing with money! Billions and billions of dollars are available from the sale of drugs, but instead, billions are spent on fighting same. And when will it end - some day, never? So there are 3 options: 1) the status quo, or 2) stop spending billions fighting it and just let the cartels make their sales, or 3) countries can become the legalized sellers of drugs. I'm not suggesting; I'm just stating the obvious: coffers can be full or empty. But no-one has yet to figure out how.

[Jim in Cancun]

Not referring to "personal use"--How many existing countries have decriminalized the sale of drugs?
(for semantic purposes, I refer to cocaine, marijuana, meth, etc.)

I found this on Portugal--one of the most endebted countries in the EU.
Decriminalizing Drugs in Portugal a Success, Says Report - TIME

5 Years After: Portugal's Drug Decriminalization Policy Shows Positive Results: Scientific American

[V]

Good work, Jim, I'll have a look at those.

Thanks for thinking of doing a search. I had no idea about this.

[V]

What Portugal did was good, and produced positive results which are measurable. But, in my opinion, they didn't go far enough by far, by merely decriminalizing drug use. They left in place the criminal syndicates which supply the drugs, the violence inherent in the drug trade, and the dangers created by allowing unlicensed and unregulated production of the substances people put into their bodies.

I would go further, licensing and regulating the production of the drugs people want to use in much the same way alcohol is dealt with. This would guarantee the quality of the drugs; then, I would allow the open, but regulated sale of the drugs- again, much as is done with alcohol.

Purchasers would be required to sit through a video presentation which acquaints them with the proper use, dose, and hazards of use of the drug purchased.

Few seem even willing to consider such a step, much less engage in a dialog which could lead to change. Well known people who've attempted to engage on this subject have been met with stoney silience, from both the users, and the nonusers. Interesting....