What do I need FMT, FM 2, FM 3 ????????????

[Caribbean_Expat]

hi everyone

Im wanting to go to Cancun and stay long term, basically im asking what type of documentation will I need.

my plans are as follows: I will leave DFW as if I am on vacation, I will have a flat lined up and I know I am allowed to stay for 6months this way.

I want to look for a job once I arrive, this may not be the best way to do it but IDK all of my options at the moment.

I want to stay longer than six months, but I only have enough cash to come for 6 and then go back if I dont get to work. How should I apply for a work visa? Before I leave or after I arrive? I understand you need an employer to sign for your application, IDK how I would manage that without being there to look for a job first.


If Im forgetting anything which Im sure I am as Im strapped for time at the moment, please let me know.

thank you to anyone who helps

[CancunMole]

See the reference link in the Papers needed for fm3 work visa? thread http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39558

[bncancun]

I will also say two things:
If you can, get your FM3 there, INM is being a a pain in the ass right now. They were robbed a couple weeks ago and are not very happy.
I have a FM3 for over 6 years and they are giving me a hard time. They now don't even want to give me a FM2.
Point two would be there are NO jobs here right now and we are in low season. If you are a woman under the age of 35 you may have some luck as an English Teacher (but remember you need to speak Spanish too)

[Caribbean_Expat]

could someone please lay this out to me from the ground up? If you go to the mexican embassy site there isnt a thing about moving to mexico on there.

No links no anything or I didnt see them anyway.

an FM3 is a resident alien work visa correct???
an FM2 is just a living permit correct? It allows you to stay longer than 6months???

What are the laws about staying in Mexico and crossing the border every six months? Are their laws that restrict you from coming directly back? If so how long do you have to wait?

Is it better to apply for an fm2 or fm3 in the US or after I arrive in Mexico? I assume as it is with every other country its before I leave, my question is this. How do you get an fm3 if you apply for it before you get to Cancun without even looking for a job as I assume you have to have an employer sign something also.

Is it possible but questionable illegal to, come down, hopefully find work, the have a family member in the states fill out an FM3 application for me and then send it off as if it were me???

[eddie.willers]

Originally Posted by Caribbean_Expat

could someone please lay this out to me from the ground up?

In my understanding (folks - correct me if you know differently) It goes like this:

1. FMT - standard tourist visa. Costs MN$230 at the border (when crossing by and) or is included in the airfare (when flying in). Can be valid from anywhere between 30 and 180 days (th maximum). If you are issued an FMT for less than 180 days then it can be extended (once only) up to the 180 day maximum at the local INM (Immigration) office. At the end of the 180 days you must leave the country. However, if you cross in to the US at, say, Reynosa/Hidalgo and then re-enter a few hours later at Mercedes/Los Indios it is highly unlikely any eyebrows will be raised. As far as I know, Mexico does not have any consistently applied tracking system for FMTs.

However, an FMT holder CANNOT: work 'officially' (in ANY capacity, even voluntary); open a bank account; hold a state-issued drivers license etc etc


2. FM3. The FM3 is a Non-Resident Alien Visa - ie: you have your principal residence in another country but you are staying in Mexico for a while. Although an FM3 is good for 12 months, it can only be renewed 4 times (ie: for a maximum of 5 years) and then the holder has to apply for an FM2.

3. FM2. This is the Resident Alien Visa - issued to those who live permanently in Mexico and intended to take up citizenship. Like the FM3, it has a five year maximum life. FM2's are normally only issued after one has held an FM3 for at least a year.

NB: FM3 and 2 have several different 'flavours'. The usual one for gringo-expat retirees is the 'Rentista' category (ie: someone living off their rents and investments). To gain a 'working' FM3 (as an 'Cargo de Confianza' - a trusted employee), your potential employer has to write the INM stating why you are to be preferred over any Mexican applicants, how long you are to be employed, how much you are to be paid etc etc.

Also:
*FM2 & 3 have restrictions on how long you may stay out of the country in a given period.
*On an FM3, you are allowed to bring a vehicle in to the country and keep it here for as long as your visa is valid.
*Remember: there is no such thing as 'free speech' for us aliens. Making political statements in public, marching in demonstrations etc will get you deported if you are caught up in any trouble.

Best way: come to Mexico. Ask for a 180 day tourist visa when you enter. Find an employer willing to sponsor you for a change in immigration status. Alternatively, work for cash.

[RiverGirl]

An FM3 gives you permission to live in Mexico.

It can, in some cases, allow you to work. It will only allow you to work if it's sponsored by an employer.

In order to apply for an FM3 before you come to Mexico you need to apply based on either a job offer you already have OR as a rentista.

If you apply for an FM3 as a rentista then you need to show that you already have income and/or savings from outside of Mexico. So if you had say investments of $100K USD or a pension from a job, or other income or monies you could show those to Mexican Immigration and you would be given an rentista FM3.

An FM3 is for people who wish to live in Mexico short-term (5 years or so). FM3s are what's called "no inmigrante", which means the FM3 holder doesn't intend to emigrate permanently to Mexico.

And FM2 also allows you to live in Mexico. And it can also be based on different things, just like and FM3. It can be based on marriage to a Mexican (an FM3 can as well), it can be based on a job offer and it can be rentista (based on having money from outside Mexico).

FM2s are for people who expect to live in Mexico for a long time. For the first 5 years of an FM2 the document is "inmigrante", meaning the holder is emigrating to Mexico. After 5 years the FM2 holder can apply to get an "inmigrado" FM2. Once you have an "inmigrado" FM2 you no longer need to renew your FM2 each year and you can work anywhere in Mexico (except for the gov't) without permission from immigration.

Basically if you want to apply for to live in Mexico before you get here and get a job to sponsor you, then you must either marry a Mexican or show that you have enough money to live on here.

Mexico's immigration policies are pretty restrictive. You can't just come here to live unless you have money, a job offer or a Mexican spouse.

[cunspin]

I have lived in Mexico on a FM3 for 21 years and have never been told there is a limit on how many prorrogas or new ones I can get. That has been my experience so far-

[RiverGirl]

It looks like Eddie and I were posting at the same time. I'll add a couple of comments to what he said (hi Eddie!):

As far as I know, Mexico does not have any consistently applied tracking system for FMTs.

Mexican Immigration scans your passport into their federal computer system when you enter the country. They can see, in one second, the date you last entered Mexico and where you entered. The system is pretty accurate. If your FMT expires you can return legally afaik to Mexico the next day if you like, but you might be questioned by INM if they suspect you are living here on an FMT.

although an FM3 is good for 12 months, it can only be renewed 4 times.

The law is open to interpretation on this point. As Cunspin points out, she's been here for AGES on an FM3. I think in the law it says that INM may deny renewal of a long-time FM3 and may ask the immigrant to apply for an FM2, but it's up to the subdelegado's discretion.

FM2's are normally only issued after one has held an FM3 for at least a year.

It would be nice if INM would be consistent on this. I had an FM3 for 4 years (not 5) and then asked if I could switch to an FM2. One subdelegada in INM said yes, so I did the paperwork. Then another subdelegado reviewed my file and denied me the FM2 saying I had to wait until I'd held the FM3 for 5 years. In my case I was able to get the first person, the subdelegada, to step in an give me my FM2 anyway.

I think, but am not sure, that how long you need an FM3 before they will let you have an FM2 is different in different places in Mexico. When I moved to Cancun 5 years ago it was my understanding that I could have gotten an FM2 then (and should have). But now, in Cancun, I don't think they are giving FM2s to people who have not had FM3s first. Obviously this is a part of the law that is wide-open to interpretation by the various decision makers in each INM office.

In short, Eddie is right on the money when he says to come here on an FMT and then get a job and apply to change your status to a work-sponsored FM3.

And bncancun is right that this is slow season, there are few jobs and INM in Cancun is a big mess right now. Not only were they robbed but they've had lots of changes management and lots of people have been quitting lately.

Lots of people move here and then don't actually like it. You might be better off coming for a while to see if you like it before you jump through lots of bureaucratic hoops with immigration.

Come in on an FMT, but don't be STUPID enough to tell the immigration agent that you are moving here!!

Legally you can't move here with an FMT. So if you hand the agent an FMT form and then tell them you are moving here they can, and often will, put you on the next plane back where you came from. Legally you come as a tourist and then while you are here you "change your mind" and apply to live here legally.

[Steve]

This makes a great reference thread, I'll sticky it.

[eddie.willers]

Originally Posted by RiverGirl

It looks like Eddie and I were posting at the same time. I'll add a couple of comments to what he said (hi Eddie!):

Mexican Immigration scans your passport into their federal computer system when you enter the country.

Hi Rivergirl - without being persnickety, the scanning of passports is definitely not a feature at the Reynosa/Pharr International Bridge crossing. In my experience, the INM official usually only gives the passport a cursory glance - certainly there are no computers, scanners, cameras etc in sight. All in all, it's a whole lot less paranoid than attempting to enter the USA, but then the US doesn't enforce its immigration policies to the extent Mexico does.

[RiverGirl]

Good point Eddie, It's been ages since I crossed via a land border. And you are right, when I did they certainly did not scan my passport.

[Caribbean_Expat]

well for me, when I said move i meant temporarily, I want to live in Cancun for a year or so and thats about it, then move somewhere else. I understand all the fm2, fm3 things now.

But im still not clear on how crossing a land border and coming back works. Can you cross a border and come back the next day? Or do you have to wait a predetermined amount of time?

[Isla Zina]

When you get here, you will see. There are almost daily 24 hours excursions to Belize for $20US that over 24 to 36 hours or so will satisfy your visa needs

[RiverGirl]

The immigration agents on both sides of the Mexico-Belize border are on to foreigners who go down there and just spend 24 hours and come back in to get a new FM-T.

I've heard many reports of them telling foreigners that they can't just go to Belize and come back in 24 or 36 hours, unless they pay a bribe. I don't know that there's actually a rule, I think it might be legal to walk across the border and then come back in one hour, but the agents there will have you believe that it is not legal to do that. From all reports they just want an excuse to get you to give them a bribe.

On the other hand it's not legal to live in Mexico on an FM-T. So if an agent believes that is what you are doing you can end up in hot water.

The reality is that if you put yourself in a position where you need to jump around to get a new FM-T like that then you should get yourself together and get an FM-3. No one should play games with their legal status in Mexico because it's not a game. If you screw up with INM they can ban you from the country for 10 years. And you don't want me to repeat the horror stories I've heard from people who've ended up in the Immigration lock-up, it's not a place you want to go, trust me.

Instead of playing border-hopping games just get an FM-3 and you can relax.

[Isla Zina]

Rivergirl is right, of course. There are people on the island living like this though. Not that I approve

[RiverGirl]

Personally I don't care if anyone is illegal, in fact I don't really believe in borders. Migration is a normal, natural thing that humans have done since before we could walk on two legs. All this crap about needing permission to live somewhere goes against what is natural and right for people.

But I hear first hand accounts everyday of people who are just like us but who end of making one mistake with INM and the next thing they know they are in lock-up for 3 months and can't even call their family to tell them they are safe. It's an ugly business and the only way to make sure you are really safe is to do what it takes to get an FM3 or an FM2.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by RiverGirl

Migration is a normal, natural thing that humans have done since before we could walk on two legs. All this crap about needing permission to live somewhere goes against what is natural and right for people.

I agree, but let's face it, it aint gonna happen.

What pisses me off to some extent is all the hoops those who go the legal route have to jump through, time that could have been spent doing better things, plus the not insignificant extra expense. While those here illegally miss out on all that good stuff.

I guess though, there are always those in life who will do things right and those who don't give a shit. Too bad if they get deported.

[heatandsun]

I met with Mauricio this afternoon, to start the FM3 process. He was thorough and took the time to explain everything to me.

Thanks to those on this board for making the recommendation, it makes an intimidating process seem doable.

Sue

http://dentrodeljardin.blogspot.com/

[RiverGirl]

I agree Steve, it doesn't seem fair that it's this much work and expense to live here legally.

[Dan-0]

Rivergirl, thanks for the info, it's very helpful. I wonder if I might get your input on my situation. I'm a U.S. citizen married to a Mexican citizen. Both of our children have dual citizenship. Our primary residence is here in the U.S. but we spend 2-3 months a year at a house we have in Chetumal. The house is in my wife's name. For the last few years, I've stayed in Mexico with an FMT, because I haven't considered it worth the trouble to apply for an FM2 or FM3. But, since I plan to retire to Mexico in about 10 years, I would like to apply for an FM2 so that I can eventually apply for citizenship by the time I'm ready to retire. What do you think, would this be the way to go? I plan on applying at the Mexican Consulate in Atlanta. They're much more helpful than Mexican Immigration in Chetumal, who, in the past, have basically told me unless I could prove permanent residence and held a job in Mexico they could do nothing for me.

BTW, your Blog is great, thanks!

[RiverGirl]

Dan - I think your plan is wise, not sure about how easy it will be for you to get there tho.

There are limits to how long you can be outside of Mexico if you hold an FM2. I don't have time to look it up right now (I'm pretty sure I posted it somewhere on CancunCare before), but it's along the lines of no more than 2 or 3 months a year OUT of Mexico. So it will be hard for you to hold an FM2 while you aren't actually living in Mexico.

If you only ever entered and left Mexico via land crossings you might be able to hide some of your exits and thereby make it look like you are in Mexico more that you really are. But this is risky and probably not worth the hassle and expense. And you'd have to keep really good track of the lie you are nurturing.

Holding an FM3 is more flexible, I don't think there is a limit to how long you can be outside the country.

In Cancun, right now, you can't get an FM2 without holding an FM3 first. This is not true all over Mexico, it has to do with how the agents here interpret the law.

If the same rule applies in Chetumal then you might be wise to get an FM3 and time it so that you've held it for 5 years BEFORE you move here permanently. That way when you move here you will qualify for the FM2.

But if you can find an IMN office that will allow you to go straight to an FM2 then you may not want it yet.

Once you've held your FM2 for two years (since you are married to a Mexican) you can apply for citizenship. So in theory if you retire here and get an FM2 immediately you could be a Mexican citizen within just a few years.

If I were you I would get an FM3 about 5 years before you plan to retire here, get an FM2 when you retire here and apply for citizenship after 2 years here.

[Dan-0]

Rivergirl, thanks so much for the feedback. I was just hoping not to have to wait two years after moving to Mexico to get my citizenship. Mainly because I want to have the option of enrolling in IMSS as soon as possible. I really don't want to lie, I just wasn't aware that they tracked a person's entries and exits from Mexico so closely. I have held an FM3 before, but it was for a short-term job I had and it expired years ago. I'm going to take your advice and head to the Consulate in Atlanta in a couple of weeks and apply for an FM3. They're much easier to work with than the officials in Chetumal. I got both my FM3 and my daughter's Mexican citizenship over there in one day. Thanks again!

[CancunMole]

Some interesting information in the February 25, 2010 entry at this blog Site, http://www.fallinginlovewithsanmiguel.com/gpage.html

[CancunCanuck]

Interesting reading, thanks CancunMole.

[RiverGirl]

I've seen the new design of the FMT replacement. It's a very poorly designed form unfortunately. I found mistakes in the English and in the Spanish, and many of the fields are too small for a normal person to actually use. I'm hoping that the version I saw will be revised, but I don't have a lot of hope that it will.

[pocodinero]

Is it easy to complete the paperwork for and FM3 or FM2 by yourself or is it neccessary (or wiser) to have a lawyer do it for you? If a lawyer is involved, does anyone know what an estimated cost would be?

[V]

Here's a description of the process for one of the more popular visa types: if you feel up to it, you can do it yourself, as many do.
_______________________

FM3, VISITANTE RENTISTA

If you are interested in living in Mexico, and wish to have official permission to do so, one of the ways to do this is with an FM3 Visitante Rentista. Rentista means wealthy, but in practice that just means you have financial resources sufficient to live in Mexico, without working, for a period of one year.

The resources required may be in the form of an income stream from abroad, or cash in the bank from which you can draw; and, if based on an income stream, then the equivalent of $13,250 pesos per month. If based on money in the bank, there is no clear guidance on this in the law, but a sum the equivalent of 15 times $13,250 pesos should suffice, as it would be more than the total of 12 months of the required income stream. (The law also states that you only need half these sums, if you own your own residence, in Mexico.) If relying on money on deposit in the bank, more is better, up to a point, so no doubt is left about your ability to support yourself for one year.

The amounts mentioned above are for one person; but, a married couple, applying together, may not need the equivalent of 2X the above sums, but should have significantly more than that required for one.

If you intend to rely on an income stream, then it must be reflected as a regular deposit to your bank account in your monthly statements.

As with anything, knowing what you'll need, and preparing ahead of time may make the difference between success and failure. Now, as to what you'll need to have, in order to apply.

a) the original, and a copy, of the application, itself;
b) your passport, and a copy of each and every page of it, whether blank, or not;
c) the original, and a copy of the document given you when you entered Mexico: for many of you this will be an FMT;
d) a letter in Spanish, signed by yourself and addressed to the National Institute of Migration, in which you request a change of your status in the country to that of non-immigrant, Visitante Rentista, to live in Mexico at your own expense, relying on resources from outside the country;
e) the last three monthly statements (originals) from a bank account standing in your name, which either reflect the required income stream, or the balance on deposit, if you're relying on a sum on deposit, rather than an income stream (you will have brought these bank statements with you when you entered Mexico, so you are ready to begin this process), and a copy of each statement;
f) official translations of the three bank statements (easily obtained in Cancun, after you arrive), and copy of each translation;
g) proof that you've paid the initial fee required of you with the application, consisting of the receipt you will be given when you pay the required fee at any bank in Mexico, and three copies of same;
h) proof of your actual residence in Mexico, which can be a paid utility bill, bearing your actual address, for a utility service which is billed in your name; or, if the utility account is in the name of another, then, in addition to the bill and a copy of it- a letter from that person, 1) signed under a declaration they are telling the truth; which 2) shows the address of the property; and, 3) names you as living there, with 4) the date on which you began living there- together with a copy of their personal identification; and, a copy of each and every one of these.

These documents, submitted to the Immigration Offices, are sufficient to start the process of review. In Cancun, you may be told to come back in one week, at which time you will be told if your application has been approved. If approved, you will be given a date and time to return, and a new set of instructions to follow. You will be asked to pay an additional sum at a bank; and to have photos made of you which follow certain guidelines, both front and side views.

There will be additional visits to be made before the process is complete, but if you've gotten this far, the rest should be easy.
____________________

For additional information on variations on this visa type, you could see, as well-

http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/livi...on-cancun.html

In this thread, and the one mentioned, just above, you'll find recommendations and contact information for the lawyer many of the posters rely on for help with immigration, Mauricio Mendoza.

Should you start a business, such as you've mentioned on other threads, you immigration status, and permission to work could then be in connection with the business you've established. For more details on that, you could visit-

http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/livi...ng-cancun.html

[ToriB]

[QUOTE=V;307164]Here's a description of the process for the most popular visa type: if you feel up to it, you can do it yourself.
_______________________

FM3, VISITANTE RENTISTA

If you are interested in living in Mexico, and wish to have official permission to do so, one of the ways to do this is with an FM3 Visitante Rentista. Rentista means wealthy, but in practice that just means you have financial resources sufficient to live in Mexico, without working, for a period of one year.


Is this really the most popular visa? I know there are a alot of retired expats here, but there is a VERY large population of 20/30 somethings here that I have run into on random nights out, whom I am sure work...unless they are trust fund brats. I am just curious, cause it seems whenever this topic gets brought up, Renters (Retirees) are the only class discussed in length.

[V]

Interesting point, whether there are more foreigners here, with permission to work, than here merely with permission to live, relying on financial self-sufficiency. I suppose the reality is I don't know too many who both need, and have, official permission to work, aside from those who operate their own businesses.

You may very well have contact with more people who hold jobs, though I think it's a fairly frequent occurrence for people to work here without official permission (but, I don't want to go too far out on that limb, it being a mere impression: with your observation in mind, I amend my post, above, to read, "...one of the more popular visas...."!).

The FM3 Visitante Rentista is neither age based, nor "retirement" based, making it a popular option for many who want to live in Mexico, with official permission: the majority of those I personally know who hold this status are neither retired, nor of retirement age.

As for discussions of other visas types, there's lots of that on this thread, as well as on the thread, below-

http://www.cancuncare.com/forum/livi...on-cancun.html

[RiverGirl]

If you are married to a Mexican, and the legal basis for your living here is that marriage then your immigration status will start as "Familiar." I have an FM2 with Inmigrante - Familiar status. I think Steve has the same.

When I had an FM3 it was the same, it was no-inmigrante (because FM3 is always no-inmigrante) - Familiar.

I think Rentista status is common. But Familiar status is probably more common. And I don't know what your status is when your employer sponsors your immigration but that status is always very common.

Note that if you are Familiar status you are automatically granted the right to work. You simply need to inform INM of your activity. The law says that spouses of Mexicans are automatically given the right to work.