"You didnt build that"

Discussion in 'Free For All' started by Steve, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    It's words that have a meaning by themselves, I don't believe the meaning changes dependent on who said it. Experience or otherwise.

    Poor parenting, lack of education, lack of opportunity, bad career choices, lack of ambition, lack of balls, downright laziness.

    We all have the same start in life but by the time we become of working age our attitudes and aspirations have been shaped by our mentors. Our parents, our teachers, our environment, our friends, where we live, the school we go to. Not everyone has the same opportunities, shouldnt we be trying to create those opportunities for others instead of saying "tough shit buddy"? I say "we" because this is not just an issue for the US it's an issue for any country.

    If we create the right environment for people to prosper, then more people will.
     
  2. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    Steve, the environment is there but the will to achieve is not. Why should anyone work when they don't have to. My comment about the food stamp program and feeding the animals may seem harsh, but it is very true. Why should anyone make the effort when the government is always there to bail them out. We have done so much to destroy initiative in the US that now everyone is entitled to some hand out from the government. The standard attack of the left is that the poor will be left to fend for themselves.

    My question then is a simple one. Who will pay for the poor when there is no money?
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    I agree that yeah it did have a lot to do with me, I had the drive, determination and skills to make it a success. And the balls to leave a good job with great benefits and pension, move half way across the world and take the site full time.

    But it was good parenting and education that gave me those attributes. And it was other peoples innovations and work that gave me the tools to "build it". Add a little luck- if I did not go to Dady Rock that night in 1998 and met Jannet I probably would never have gone back to Mexico and I'd still be in my old day job.

    Hard work? not really. I read, tap away at a computer, I choose my hours and if I want a day off I go and have one. We recently got back from our trip to the UK and our garden was knee high in weeds. A 60 yr old guy spent 6 hours sweating in temperatures of 95F chopping, preening, sweeping. It now looks great...... and he was paid $35. Now, that is hard work, for not much money.
     
  4. Canadian Dos Equis fan

    Canadian Dos Equis fan Cancuncare's Most Interesting Man Registered Member

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    Haha! we ignore them until they do something especially stupid or entertaining. Something about the parliamentary system brings out the screamers!
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    Last one for tonight, work to do :)

    The answer would be to act before that situation arises.

    There's two ways of doing it - you can either starve them into submission by reducing benefits or you can try and create an environment where more can prosper, costing us less and contributing more.

    Creating even more poor people isn't going to work.
     
  6. slore19

    slore19 Regular Registered Member

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    I am always curious as to whether the people that are so anti welfare have any family/friends that are on it. And if so, do they berate them as if they are second rate citizens. Have they ever given them any assistance or do they tell their family/friends "tough shit buddy", you should have achieved what I have by now.
     
  7. fireguy2035

    fireguy2035 Enthusiast Registered Member

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    One thing I have learned from being in business is this. There are always going to be people in this world who will never amount to anything and spend their whole lives being jealous and resentful of those who worked 18 hours days to get where they are. If they had harnessed that energy into being productive they would be living different lives now. My father once told me it did not matter what type of work a person did in life as long as that person decided he was going to be the best at that job and to always look for better ways to do it. If a person takes that attitude it is almost impossible for them to fail. We are currently teaching people in this country they are "entitled" to everything wether they have earned it or not. Steve if you feel so strongly in your views about your successes you should be giving away all your wealth instead of spending it on yourself and living well it seems. What gives you the right to live well ?? How can you say it is yours ? After all as you say you didn't build it but all those others who came along first with their ideas did. You will always have a segment of the population who would rather live off the the sweat of others and play the guilt game to to those of us who bust our asses to get where we are. Here is a little food for thought as I close...the US has one of the highest rates of obesity in the world......at the same time you see some of these obese people standing in line for food stamps at the encouragement of the government. What is wrong with that picture ? Prime Minister Thatcher said it best" Socialism is wonderful thing..until you run out of other peoples money".
     
  8. V

    V I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    I'm happy for your success, but your statement is more akin to a statement of faith, and flies in the face of data, worldwide, that shows it is not only possible to fail, but the most likely outcome of any small business venture, anywhere.
     
  9. crar0520

    crar0520 Regular Registered Member

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    Very well put Jamie. That is why most young people comming out into the workforce today want exactly what their parents have. What they don't realize is their parents worked 40 years to obtain it.

    We have an entitlement society, everyone wants everything and they don't want to work for it.

    Remember the lady in 2008 who (they even played it over and over on the liberal media networks, MessNBC etc.) that Obama was going to take care of her bills, house, etc. They are selling dillusionment (I think I just made that word up!)

     
  10. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    No one has even remotely suggested an end to all welfare. There are those who cannot take care of themselves and they should always be wards of society. A common tactic of the left has always been to throw the poor in the face of change so that more and more become wards of the state and vote for more giveaways from their masters. If Biden wants to talk about putting people back in chains he need only look to the system of giving money to people in exchange for their votes.

    What has to happen in the US is fairly simple in statement and very difficult in practice. People have to become accountable for their own actions. A recent news story appeared about a guy who was just 30 years old and he had 33 children whom he could not support. Neither he nor the women he slept with were even remotely accountable. Why? Because the system does nothing to discourage them.

    Right now 30 percent of all the people on Social Security are on Social Security disability. Of those that I know are drawing disability, less than half of them are really disabled. Now tell me what is the justification for that? What is the justification for free cell phones that get an extra 250 minutes every month? What is the justification for free anything for people who are capable of working but won't?

    If you get a chance, check out the cover of this week's "Newsweek" magazine. And here's a shocker for you....it isn't just Fox News that thinks it's time for a change!
     
  11. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    V, there is only one sure way to fail......that is to never try!
     
  12. slore19

    slore19 Regular Registered Member

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    There were a lot of words to your response, but none actually responded to the question I asked. And after re-reading my statement, I don't think I said anyone wanted to END welfare. I said anti-welfare, meaning against.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't welfare regulations vary state to state? If that is so, how is it PRESIDENT Obama's fault that the system is being exploited?

    I'm very much against paying for folks that work the system by the way.

     
  13. Steve

    Steve Administrator Owner

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    We are far from "wealthy", if we were we probably would give more away. We live a comfortable life and earn more than most Mexicans but I wouldn't class us as rich and in a position to give money away.

    This is a job that has an uncertain future and comes with no pension. In 20 years time I'm going to be 65 with one child who has just (hopefully) finished university and another who will be of university age. We dont live frivolously, any extra we have at the end of the month is invested for our retirement and kids future.
     
  14. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    slore, I think part of it depends on your definition of welfare. Do you include Social Security as welfare? Do we include any program that is a form of government assistance?

    The definition I would use is the broader definition of government payments or programs that have made it easier to not work. For example, free cellphones that seem to be handed out pretty much indiscriminately, also unemployment benefits that approach two years in length, and the list goes on.

    Your comment that welfare, per se, is a state run function is correct. However, there are mandates that are handed down by the feds such as workfare which has been downgraded immensely under Obama.

    Specifically I have clients that can't find workers to fill job openings as an example of what I object to. We are not talking minimum wage jobs, but both blue collar and white collar jobs that go unfilled because it is easier to draw the unemployment.

    My concerns are based that if we keep on with massive giveaway programs that will result in the country eventually running out of money and then what will the poor do? What will any of us do if we have to have huge cuts in government programs along with huge tax increases? The problem with entitlements and giveaway programs is that no one who benefits ever wants to see them end. Unless something changes very drastically in this country those programs will come to a screeching halt.
     
  15. slore19

    slore19 Regular Registered Member

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    So welfare was a well oiled machine between 2000-2008 I suppose? I keep forgetting that PRESIDENT Obama is the sole reason for all our problems. I'm sure if/when we get him out of office, everything will magically correct itself. I sure can't wait.

     
  16. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    I don't believe that anyone has ever said that welfare or any federal giveaway program was a "well oiled machine" at any point in our history. Obama has been quick to jump to pile on government programs to cure all the problems and none of them have done anything other than increase the deficit. Please tell us why he should be re-elected. I haven't seen one reason the man deserves a second term.
     
  17. slore19

    slore19 Regular Registered Member

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    If you don't want to vote for him, than just don't. I don't understand why people feel the need to explain/validate their reasoning. I'm not going to tell you why he should be re-elected because you have already made up your mind, so I would just be wasting both our times. Hopefully you get the person you want, and they do everything you want them to do. :aktion051:

     
  18. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    slore, you are correct that I have made up my mind. However there are many who have not. My question was not meant to be condescending in any way. I look at the man's record and can see no reason to vote for him, but I would like to know the reasons why those that support Obama continue to support him.

    I've always believed that forums are a good place to learn and to hear other opinions. Whether we agree or not, it is always good to hear another view. There is another regular here named Brewster. I joke with him that he is the only liberal in Western Canada.
     
  19. slore19

    slore19 Regular Registered Member

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    My question to you is this: Are you just voting for Romney because you do not want to re-elect President Obama? Or do you believe he is the answer and will cure all the wrongs in our country?
     
  20. twinimini

    twinimini I can choose my own title Registered Member

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    First off I don't think anyone from any political party has a cure for all that ails the US. No one has all the answers.

    I won't vote for Obama because I believe he and his policies have failed in almost every regard. I see Obama as being in way over his head and who has surrounded himself with people who are corrupt and inept. His spending policies have not generated growth of anything other than the deficit. I don't see these massive spending programs as doing anything other than putting more people on the government take.

    So this brings us to Romney. I see Romney as a business person who has a good administrative track record. Do I agree with everything he says or does? Of course not, but I do think he would do a better job of handling the economy and controlling the deficit.

    Right now we have to get people back to work and we have to do something with this deficit. I don't see the current administration as being even remotely capable of being able to accomplish those goals. When you are spending more than you are taking in, the last thing you need to do is get another credit card. That is the route I see Obama going.